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sunshine New Member
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 7
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:49 am Post subject: How to look for a mouthpiece |
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I've been playing trumpet avidly for about 6 years. Now entering my senior year in high school as principle trumpet, I'm looking for a new, better mouthpiece and have no clue how to start looking to find the right one for me, any suggestions? |
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TurkeyHooNahNah Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 882 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:14 am Post subject: |
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What are you playing on right now? |
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DCB1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Jacksonville, Florida
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Here is a good starting point.
http://ibowtie.com/xcart/pages.php?pageid=1 _________________ DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
Curry
Bach
Selmer Radial
Kanstul
Holton
Amati
Conn |
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E.D.Lewis Veteran Member
Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 300 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Buy a Monette Prana B2 and you're good to go!
Just kidding. You need to know what you're looking to change/improve when comparing your current equipment to anything new. Would you like a more comfortable rim? Do you feel restricted in any way by your current mouthpiece? Are you looking for a different sound - brighter/darker? Is your endurance what it should be? Do you really need a new mouthpiece? Some of the biggest names in trumpet have made their mark on a Bach 7C. _________________ I find your lack of faith disturbing. |
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DaveH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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What is your present mouthpiece, and what problems are you having with it? Or, what improvement are you seeking that you think can be accomplished with a change of mouthpiece?
Where are you now, and where do you want to go? Then you will begin to establish direction. At least you will be defining the search... |
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sunshine New Member
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 7
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:01 am Post subject: |
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I'm currently playing with a Blessing 7C. I don't really want to change my sound but if a mouthpiece can help with range or endurance, that would immensly help my playing. |
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BigBadWolf Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 3091 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Why not go to your local store and try out their selection of mouthpieces. If you find something you like buy it. No one else is going to be able to legitimately help you. Ultimately you need to figure out what works best for your own tooth structure. _________________ Kevin |
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Apocalypse Horn Regular Member
Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 78 Location: Mission Viejo, California
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Hey sunshine,
I was in the same position this year when I was a princial at my high school. I thought a 7C was below me and I needed an upgrade...
Just remember that the mouthpiece you are going to use may change your sound but thats not what you are going to need if you want to play higher or longer. The best thing to do to increase your range and endurance is to play higher and longer. The more time you spend practicing will be better than any piece out on the market you can buy.
A mouthpiece may help you just don't rely on it to do all the work. If someone wanted to be good on our instrument and all they had to do was buy a really good mouthpiece, then there would be many more virtuosos in the world
But if you are looking for a mouthpiece, you need to try a wide range of them to find the best one to serve you.
Hope this helps, Dan o-iii<0 _________________ Dan
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)
NEW: Sonare TRC-800 in Silver
Stomvi Forte Bb (For Sale)
Dad's 50 year old Holton Student model |
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_dcstep Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 6324 Location: Denver
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:10 am Post subject: |
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How is that useful to someone that doesn't really know anything about mpcs?
He could go off the deep end and go to www.grmouthpieces.com
and learn a little more about the technical aspects, but he'll still need some expert help. I'd suggest that he ask this question of his private instructor.
Dave _________________ Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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_dcstep Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 6324 Location: Denver
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Duplicate belatedly deleted. Sorry.
Last edited by _dcstep on Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:07 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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DCB1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Jacksonville, Florida
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: |
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There are 149 pages on this forum and a great search function.... I thought he may do a few searches and then go to the iBowtie page and see what compares to what he is now playing. It seems we get this kind of question several times a week.
No harm intended! _________________ DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
Curry
Bach
Selmer Radial
Kanstul
Holton
Amati
Conn |
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_dcstep Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 6324 Location: Denver
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:50 am Post subject: |
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DCB1 wrote: |
No harm intended! |
None taken.
Dave _________________ Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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The advice so far is good, but since I SOOOO should have done this when I was even younger than "Sunshine" here, here's my .02:
1) Anything you try, stick with an inside cup diameter as identical to your current mpc as possible. This is one of the many ways ibowtie's chart can help. Only valid reason to change this spec would be movement of teeth, teeth cutting lip, or using a smaller diameter which theoritically assists high range. IMO, that change "isn't worth it now." Wait til you have NO upcoming performance OR auditions.
2) Realize that anything different WILL affect your sound!! I hate Bach mpcs so I would suggest something other than a shallower Bach 7, but if you play your 7C well their leadpieces would be an obvious choice. Recording yourself vs. your 7C is ideal - w/ the same mic, same recorder, same room, etc.
3) Drill size (smallest the aperture gets - different than throat!!) affects many aspects of playing. If it's even necessary, start your search only w/ mpcs of the same drill size so you're comparing "apples with apples."
4) Rim shape (what you see "on profile") has a big affect on lots of things, including how big a mpc feels. It can make a bigger mpc feel smaller and vice-versa. I like a flat, wide rim which inhibits flexibility, but I still have more than I could ever use musically. A thin or very curved rim surface aids flexibility, hurts endurance.
5) While you might get what you want with a 7C on a wider, flatter rim surface, I'd suggest starting with everything else constant and only experiment with different cup depth/shape i.e., find out how much shallower you can go and still like your sound. This should assist your range and endurance immediately! "Shallowness" of cup is an elusive term. Cup volume may or may not be more relavent. Cup SHAPE is easier for me to compare. The Canadian Brass uses V cups for a very good reason, I think. This is very different from your 7C and I've never seen a Bach V cup, even if they claim it is. GR gets very technically accurate with their terms, but I can't imagine you using it effectively until you learn a lot on your own first. Still, you should at least read through their website. Are you ready to spring $130.00 for something you might not like??
6) Be satisfied with your 7C. You're used to it. Just PRACTICE! 8 - 12 hours everyday for 3-6 years. Then PM me about what you've learned you'd like better, and I'll tell you intelligently what used stuff I could sell you cheap that would work for you. GR does good work, I like Greg Black's stuff better. You might love his Bach 7 equiv. cup diameter on his M cup. Bob Reeves is great, too. Curry's cheap and you might make do.
Warburton might give you want you want since you like Bach.
Intelligent practice is a must anyway. Involve your teacher in this as much as he/she is willing, and good luck! _________________ "And this is life: that you know the Son, and the One who sent Him." The rest is just details |
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Tristan the man 2000 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 1283 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a high school senior now too, and I'd encourage you to switch to a Bach 3C or 1-1/2C. I switched about two or three years ago when my teacher instructed me too. Ever since I made the jump to a 1-1/2C, I've had a better sound and loved it. I've even encouraged several other players at my high school to switch and they all agree. A Bach 3C or 1-1/2C is a good step up mouthpiece. Of course, if you want the same sound you have now, switching probably isn't a great idea, unless you wanted to try another 7C. Check ebay, there are many good deals there, just be careful. _________________ Kickin' brass and takin' names. |
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Upstatetpt Veteran Member
Joined: 16 May 2005 Posts: 343 Location: Up-State
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:04 am Post subject: |
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sunshine wrote: | ... if a mouthpiece can help with range or endurance, that would immensly help my playing. |
Long Tones and a regular practice regimen will do the same thing |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:55 am Post subject: |
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I found a stable practice routine starting w/ extensive long tones did wonders for me, but had I done that on the right mpc it would've been MUCH more helpful. I was on a Bach, and Bach anything is just plain wrong for me. Many people get their most desirable sound on a Bach 3C and I eventually had strong, stable double A's on a Bach 3 (even deeper) but the mpc really held me back. Neither the 3 nor the 1.5 rim are "step-up;" but larger rim sizes, with a zillion other minor differences, too. If anything, moving in that direction will hurt range and endurance, although that's arguable. If you're like most people, trying a bigger mpc will instantly improve tone and feel good, with unsustainable results.
I re-assert you're best off keeping that variable constant. |
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_dcstep Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 6324 Location: Denver
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Sunshine is happy with his or her tone and sits first chair. There is a vague desire for a mpc that might magically improve range and endurance, but nothing specific there.
I'm thinking that sticking with the 7C makes the most sense, or at least that rim size. Try a 7D perhaps and a 7B and maybe go to Curry so that the increments of size up and down are consistent, but stay in the same rim range.
Dave _________________ Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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Pete Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 1739 Location: Western Massachusetts
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:46 am Post subject: |
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I would assume that a Blessing 7C is a copy of a Bach 7C, but again, that's an assumption on my part. If it is the case, I will suggest a couple specific models, rather than searching for the right one.
The Schilke 12B4 would be slightly more shallow, probably a more comfortable rim, and is open enough to minimize a change. Another inexpensive mouthpiece would be a Giardinelli 7M. Similar to the 12B4, but probably a little wider, and brighter. The Giardinelli 10C also.The Giardinelli pieces are cheap in price but the design has been copied by many, as Bob Giardinelli was a world class mouthpiece maker. The Bach 5C, and 3C are other good choices for the money. It depends on how you feel with the diameter of the mouthpiece and how that mouthpiece works with the horn that you use. Good Luck!
Pete |
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plp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 7023 Location: South Alabama
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:03 am Post subject: |
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If you have the mouthpiece itch, as we all do from time to time, start out borrowing anything and everything you can lay your hands on before you spend a dime. If the 7C has gotten you this far, it is a good fit for you.
There are no magic mouthpieces. There are shallow 'pieces that may make the upper range easier, but will not add any notes to range you didn't already have, and may cost you in tone quality. There are mouthpieces that may aid in endurance, in that they work a little more efficiently for you than your 7C, but there is always a price to pay somewhere else.
As far as endurance, improving your playing efficiency will do you more good than a truck bed full of mouthpieces or trumpets. The only one that can help you with that will be a private instructor listening to you play, and making adjustments to your approach to help elevate ALL aspects of playing.
In high school, we had a marching band instructor come in and work our camp one year. The talk eventually turned to gear, and he said he had the magic fix for any mouthpiece made to aid in endurance and range. He would take the 'piece back to his room, and bring it back with an 'acclimation study', that we were to play everyday for a warmup. He said play it, rest for ten minutes, then play as you normally would. He then said if you were really good, then after the 10 minute rest, play it again and rest another 10 minutes, but NEVER NEVER NEVER do it more than twice. Of course, I would do it 4 or 5 times a day, and sure enough, my range and endurance was markedly better.
What did he do to the mouthpieces? Cleaned them with alcohol, brushed out all the residual Cheetos and Snickers bars, and lightly buffed the rims so any burrs were removed. No mods to anything else. The warmup exercise was what made the difference, which I later found in the Claude Gordon Systematic Approach to Daily Practice.
If you want to hear efficiency in action, get a copy of Jim Manley's 'Splendor in the Brass' CD. Listen to his rich, fat tone, beauty in all registers, and a scary altissimo range. He plays a mouthpiece that most folks could not get a sound out of, but because he is geared more to efficient playing has found what works well FOR HIM. That, and a million hours of practice. |
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crzytptman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:51 am Post subject: |
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I think it's definitly time to step up to a quality mpc. As far as specific parameters, you should try some mpcs under the guidance of someone who knows mpcs - teacher/consultant or pro player. Look for a mpc that will allow you to continue to develope rather than give you a quick fix for one of your weaknesses - no such thing as a quick fix! A craft takes time to hone. _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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