Orchestral Playing

[rawbrass03]

I have just joined a youth orchestra in my area (I'm a senior in high school), but have no experience playing in an orchestra setting. Are there any differences between orchestral playing and symphonic band / wind ensemble that I should be aware of?

[Lucian]

when i first started playing in orchestras the first thing that i had to do was to lengthen my accents...due to the fact that string players (without playing pizacatto) cannot acheive the short accent as us trumpets can. it's a blend thing. also, be prepared to listen more than you ever have before and watch the conductor and the tops of bows for the pulse, because the string ensemble sound can sometimes be delayed by the time it gets to us lonely trumpets in the back...this of course depends on how tightly you set up, but you should always watch (that's pretty basic-hehehe). hope this helps
luc

[DaveH]

I haven't had lots of experience in orchestras but what little I have indicates that one of the differences may be the presence of string players.
It is fairly easy for a brass section to overblow strings, so you will need to think about section playing and blending, rather than standing out and overblowing them.
Brass players tend to play right on the beat,whereas string players tend to be a little "behind" the beat at times(a little more "rubato" on occasion), so you will need to keep your eye on the conductor.
There may be some differences in the literature that you will play - I think that orchestra music may tend to favor the strings and perhaps some of the woodwinds more - you may actually play fewer notes overall.

[_Don Herman]

Well, I certainly agree with the rest, and as I have only played orchestra stuff a couple of years myself be wary of my advice. Also, I'm going to assume that in a band setting you play more (i.e. fewer and shorter rests), and have more help (i.e., multiple players on each part). Lack of experience has never stopped before, of course, so here goes:

(1) Good pitch is important, as well as timing and being able to start cleanly. For example, no fluffing a note when an entracne is after an extended rest, no matter the pitch or dynamics. Practice your ear training and learn to play random notes on a page, as you never know where in the chord you'll be. And check the bloody key often! It may change several times. I had an ugly time of it when a piece changed horn keys five times, and I missed one in the middle, right before a solo...

(2) Listen to your section, and the the rest of the orchestra. Most often I'm trying to stay on pitch and in tempo with the horns or trombones, but I've had parts double up the oboe, violin, etc. As has been mentioned, blending is a Big Thing -- and you have to blend with the whole orchestra, and/or different parts of it at any given time, so it's a pretty challenge.

(3) Counting. Entrances happen anyplace in the phrase, not always where one would think. I never thought just counting a few measures (well, maybe 50 or 60) could be so tough. Watch for changes, e.g. 4/4 to 3/4 to 6/8 to 4/4.

(4) Transposition. In band, I always had a Bb trumpet part in front of me (may be different for you, but that's how it was when I was in scholl bands). In the orchestra, pieces were written for horns in different keys, and you are probably holding a Bb or C (both, if you're lucky). When the part is marked "trumpet in X", where X may be almost anything (I've seen, as best I can recall, Bb, C, D, Eb, E, F, A, and B (yech!) in parts; and G in a picc part). You must be able to figure out what note to play given the note on the page, horn key indicated, and pitch of the horn in your hand.

(5) I've seen many more "weird" tempos (tempi?) and rythyms -- 9/8, 7/8, 5/4, 6/4, 7/4, and neat little things like dotted 16th to 32nd to eight etc. Also, learn to play for hours at a time (well, it feels like it on some pieces!) on the "and" of the beat. It seems easy until you have to do it for twenty measures in a row.

(6) There are fewer players -- often just one per part -- so you are more exposed. Also, solos and high parts may be found in any folder. I've played several pieces where the highest parts and several solos are in the 3rd part.

Of course, it's a great learning opportunity, and I've never learned quite so much. Plus, playing all those "familiar" classical tunes is a blast, at least for me. I never really had much exposure to classical music, so it's all new. Enjoy it!

HTH - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[tcutrpt]

Going along with what others have said, I think you need a different concept of sound in order to blend well. I know I have a different concept when i go from wind symphony to orchestra. In order to blend with the strings, you can't play with much "edge" in your sound. The sound that comes to mind is a jazzier sound. It just doesn't work in orchestra. Also, make sure your articulations are very clear. This will probably require tonguing a bit harder than you may be used to. Part of the rhythmic precision that is required comes down to articulating each note very cleanly. I hope this helps some. Enjoy orchestra, it is great fun!

Matt

[trumpetgeek234]

I think in orchestra you will be using a much wider dynamic range.
Just think of stuff like Bruckner or Berlioz or other post romantic and modern stuff.
At times you gotta play as sweet and soft as you can and at others you are just gonna blast.
Don't forget, that you'll be (mostly) alone with your part, so if you don't play perfectly right, everyone is going to hear it.
You will be transposing almost all of the time.
It get's very messy when the piece is written in several different transpositions. For example it might not be rare, that you'll be transposing to C, E flat and E in one single movement. And that is not very much fun.....
Enjoy playing in a orchestra, this will add up a lot to your band experience.
Peter

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetgeek234 on 2002-09-08 12:53 ]

[walter]

[ This Message was edited by: walter on 2002-09-20 10:39 ]

[Still Trying]

Hey, rawbrass,

I was fortunate enough to be invited to join our local symphony orchestra, when I was a senior in high school also. I was also fortunate enough to stay in that orchestra for 10 seasons. It pretty much paid for my college education. But I wasn't a complete stranger to a symphony. I had been in our high school symphony orchestra for 3 years at the time.

Don Herman pretty much covered everything you need to know, as did the other posters. There's just a couple of points I might emphasize.

Playing in a symphony, more than anything I can think of, will make a musician out of you. It smooths off all the rough edges a trumpet player develops, while playing in a school concert band. You might not be aware that you have some, but just wait. In a symphony, you're all be yourself on your part. There is absolutely no help from anybody else. You can't get lost in the crowd. If you make a mistake it sticks out like a sore thumb. And a mistake isn't just a wrong note. A mistake can be a wrong articulation, being slightly out of tune, not counting the 162 bar rest you had before you come in an play two quarter notes during the guest pianist's solo, exhibiting a slightly different way of styling from your principal (if you're not playing the first part). Even if you are playing the first part, you have to listen to the section. The section has to speak with one voice. You'll learn to REALLY listen to the player next to you and the rest of the group. You'll have to play softer than you ever thought possible while projecting to the back of the second balcony. You'll have to play louder than you ever played before, but with complete control of your tone. As everyone has told you, you have to practice transposing. I don't know how much you will transpose in a youth orchestra, but if you go any farther in an orchestra, you'll have to get to where you don't have to think about it.

Jazz musicians play in small groups and learn to do a lot of the things I mentioned, but they have a lot of leeway a symphony player doesn't have. They can be a little off tune, and make it sound like they planned it that way with their styling, for example. A symphony player can't.

To me playing in a symphony and playing your part correctly and KNOWING you played your part correctly is the greatest thrill a trumpet player can have. Like I said, it will make a musician out of you, whereas you just thought you were before.
_________________
S. T.

What do we have that we did not receive, and if we received it, why do we glory, as if we received it not?

["the pro."]

That’s a great question! I don’t think you will notice a great difference playing, just what your hearing. Remember you are just putting the horn up and singing through it. You would be wise to spend a lot of time listening to orchestral recordings. You will notice that the interplay between different instruments and sections of the ensemble is very interesting not to say this is not so for the concert band. I find that some feel a false sense of security in the wind band medium that may allow their level of performance to slide as referred to in previous posts. The only other difference that comes to mind is a greater chance of performance anxiety. If that becomes an issue let me know. I have a great quick fix. A secret of the pros. if you will. Please keep us “posted” on your progress.

Best of Luck,
“The Pro.”

[big brian]

...

[Concerned]

Have a banana. That's the most reliable "cure" for nerves I've ever encountered!

[trptmaster]

I have a "cure" for nerves and I assure you friends its not a banana! When in doubt block it out!

In Peace,

trptmaster