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jadickson83 Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject: Dimes in the valve caps? |
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So a friend of mine at school had the idea to put dimes in the bottom valve caps of his horn to see if it would work like heavy bottom valve caps. I tried it on my Schilke B1. As dumb as this may seem, the horn got a louder, bigger, more core sound. Even my piano-player girlfriend really noticed it.
I noticed it slowed down the valves because the dimes are blocking the bottom air holes in the valve caps. So I'm going to hit the hardware store and try it with washers.
Anybody had similar experiences? Any other ideas for tweaking your horn? Like putting tinfoil around the mouthpiece to double your range?
-JD _________________ I will graduate in Spring 2006 and will be looking for a job as a band director or assistant band director, probably in North Carolina / Virginia. Any information about openings would really be appreciated! Thank you!
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wvtrumpet Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 3131 Location: West Virginia
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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A 1943 Wheat Penny put about two inches into the bell really does the trick to cure faulty intonation!!!! LOL
By the way, you have to use an old piece of Bazuka bubble gum to adhere it to the bell lining. _________________ Freelance Performer/Teacher WV, PA, MD, and OH http://www.neil-king.com
Yamaha NY Bb, Adams F1 Flugelhorn, Schilke P5-4, Stomvi Eb/D Elite, Bach C 229 bell 25A, York Monarch cornet. |
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plankowner110 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9367 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Dimes in the valve caps? |
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jadickson83 wrote: | As dumb as this may seem, the horn got a louder, bigger, more core sound. |
And the horn's worth $.30 more to boot! ![](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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trumpeter68 Regular Member
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 39
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:39 am Post subject: |
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i tried it too, and i noticed a diference. it dosent slow my valves down either |
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jadickson83 Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:28 am Post subject: |
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I may spring for the Curry caps some time in the future, but for now I don't have the dough.
My mouthpiece safari finally just came to a conclusion with a Bob Reeves 42C, and after dropping my poor horn once in my gig bag I decided I needed to buy a harder case while I was at it. New toys, eh? So for now I'll stick with the $1 washers. _________________ I will graduate in Spring 2006 and will be looking for a job as a band director or assistant band director, probably in North Carolina / Virginia. Any information about openings would really be appreciated! Thank you!
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jazz4yvonne Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 18 Sep 2005 Posts: 1088
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:16 am Post subject: |
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All BS! |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9367 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:22 am Post subject: |
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jazz4yvonne wrote: | All BS! |
Yes, but the old Liberty silver dimes seem to slot better than the new composite dimes. ![](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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robbie Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 306
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:32 am Post subject: |
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All BS![/quote]
hi yvonne,
why would you think its ALL BS.what criteria are you using for this assumption?you cant make statements like that and not back it up.
i use weight in my valve caps and my horn plays totally different depending on how much or how little weight i use.the sound, slotting,flexibility and core sound all feel totally different depending what combination i use.
robbie. |
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Christian K. Peters Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 1531 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:56 am Post subject: Dimes in Valve caps |
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Hello,
I tried the trick also, but went to the hardware store for some brass washers. They weren't 100% brass as they rusted and left a funny residue in the bottom of my caps. For fear of contamination to the valves I sprung for the Curry Capps for my Schilke B2L. They did wonders for the core. I also bought brass guides. Not as noticable a difference and a little noisier to boot. So I probably would not recommend that mod. _________________ Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976 |
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badocter Veteran Member
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 413
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:22 am Post subject: |
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trumpeter68 wrote: | i tried it too, and i noticed a diference. it dosent slow my valves down either |
That depends entirely on how unobstructed the vent that goes from the bottom of the valve piston to the top is. On a few of my valves the valve ports almost totally block that vent -- those valve always come up slow if the bottom valve cap vent hole blocked.
With this setup, how do you keep it from sounding like a tamborine when you change fingerings? How are you all securing your coinage? |
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Mikeytrpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2004 Posts: 5028 Location: Richfield, Minnesota
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:28 am Post subject: |
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How are you all securing your coinage?
With BVD's.................
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trickg Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5682 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Ever since I got my Schilke I have been amazed at the craftsmanship and performance. They are, in my mind, designed to be virtually perfect. They were extensively prototyped and tested prior to their release. I know that some people really like the feel and stability that heavier valve caps or other weight adding things bring to their horns. I did too. I always used a set of Selmer made, Strad accessory heavy caps on my Strad, however, when I bought this Schilke, I decided to try to let the horn stand on its own without any add-ons or changes, other than the Reeves alignment that I recently had done.
I would suggest that if the added weight is improving things, then maybe the real issue lies elsewhere such as the gap relationship with your mouthpiece in the receiver - I personally just don't believe that Schilkes need any help and that for me, my B6 is THE best horn I have ever owned, and quite possibly the best I have ever played.
Before you go adding a bunch of stuff onto your B1 and spending money if you don't have to, do some reading on Jim Donaldson's Schilke Loyalist website:
http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/ _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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gchun Guest
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:46 am Post subject: dimes vs heavy caps |
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My understanding is that the dime/washer concept is different from the heavy cap thing. The dime/washer needs to be firmly tightened down to close off the valve casing cylinder. It's based off a principle that an open cylinder reacts differently than a closed-ended cylinder.
Not all heavy caps close off the cylinder. Some do. Some of the heavy cap makers offer the option of metal shims that will make the heavy cap work like the dime. Some heavy caps needs the shim (or washer) to have the same effect as the dime/washer.
The heavy cap that does not butt up against the bottom of the cylinder can make a difference from a regular cap, just differently than the dime alone.
While these options do make a difference, sometimes is for the better, sometimes for the worse. Use whatever works best for you.
Garry |
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jadickson83 Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:08 am Post subject: |
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I went to the hardware store this morning and found some brass washers that were the right size-- that was the only kind they had in a size that would work.
I played around with them for about an hour and found that they didn't really improve the sound, and in fact made the horn harder to play all around.
So now I'm going to mess around with the dimes again. I drilled holes through the middle so they won't block the bottom cap's air holes. It seems that dimes are copper on the inside, wich of course will make them vibrate differently than the brass washers.
I'll post my thoughts after I noodle around with them later in case anyone out there gives a rip. I'm having fun experimenting with this.
-JD _________________ I will graduate in Spring 2006 and will be looking for a job as a band director or assistant band director, probably in North Carolina / Virginia. Any information about openings would really be appreciated! Thank you!
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jadickson83 Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:12 am Post subject: |
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And yes I've read the Schilke Loyalist website. It's awesome. It sold me on my Schilke B1, especially after playing one at a convention.
And yes Schilke horns are made with incredible precision, and I don't think I have one-upped their engineers by putting dimes in my valve caps. I'm just messing around.
And of course I firmly believe that adding stuff to your horn doesn't make you a better player; a good teacher, practice and propper blowing makes you a better player.
Groovy.
-JD _________________ I will graduate in Spring 2006 and will be looking for a job as a band director or assistant band director, probably in North Carolina / Virginia. Any information about openings would really be appreciated! Thank you!
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trumpeter68 Regular Member
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 39
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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badocter wrote: | trumpeter68 wrote: | i tried it too, and i noticed a diference. it dosent slow my valves down either |
That depends entirely on how unobstructed the vent that goes from the bottom of the valve piston to the top is. On a few of my valves the valve ports almost totally block that vent -- those valve always come up slow if the bottom valve cap vent hole blocked.
With this setup, how do you keep it from sounding like a tamborine when you change fingerings? How are you all securing your coinage? |
on my horn the dimes fit in pretty tight |
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Trumpeter656 Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 389 Location: Plymouth State University
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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I tried dimes in my Cleveland to see what would happen, but my bottom valve caps wouldn't go on all the way and my valves when depressed clicked against the dimes. My horn has the old valve caps shapped like baby bottle nipples, and they're smaller than those on my strad? Any advice? _________________ 2005 Bach Stradivarius 43*
1973 Bach Stradivarius 37
Conn 8D double F/Bb horn |
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mfan Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2003 Posts: 213 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmmmm....I must've heard wrong. I glued dimes to the tops of my finger buttons. Now I hear they're supposed to go inside the bottom caps!?? |
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wvtrumpet Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 3131 Location: West Virginia
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree with Yvonne, this is BS.... Pure trumpet vudoo..... Bottom line practice and your horn will have more of a core and sound great!
My teacher use to tell me all the time when I was young and came in with some idea about this or that equipment wise. "A lot of people have made a lot of money playing a standard Bach or Schilke mp. with a Bach trumpet, Now go practice" _________________ Freelance Performer/Teacher WV, PA, MD, and OH http://www.neil-king.com
Yamaha NY Bb, Adams F1 Flugelhorn, Schilke P5-4, Stomvi Eb/D Elite, Bach C 229 bell 25A, York Monarch cornet. |
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