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weekendwarrior
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:30 pm    Post subject: More Air....... Reply with quote

How much more air does the Chicago School require?

WW
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steve_fenick
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't so much that proponents use "more" air. The idea is that wind is fuel for a great sound, so you use the amount of wind that allows you to get that great sound. Proponents of this school of thought don't focus on pushing huge amounts of air through the horn while playing. They concern themselves with getting a great concept of the way they want to sound, and focus on that ideal sound while playing.
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J.B.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It requires exactly 14 cubic centimeters more. So use that much and you'll sound just like them.
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Derek Reaban
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a really great article by John Hagstrom (from the Chicago Symphony) where he provides some good comments on air support.

He says, "The biggest misconception of Chicago Symphony high brass tone production: It is that we are blowing huge quantities of air through the instrument in the way the trombones and tuba do. This is false, but it is not hard to see how this misconception starts and spreads. Everyone has been told at one time or another in their training to use more air support, which gets distilled down into 'Use more air!'

At first, our sense of what it feels like to use more air is rather crude, but our efforts in that direction pay off handsomely. Tone and consistency improve, but the improvement is the result of air being put into the position of starting the sound, with the lips and tongue being much more of a reaction to the air. Even so, the player may improperly conclude that it was the quantity of air that made the difference, when it really was the immediacy and the compression of the air that were responsible for the improvements. In fact, the trumpets and horns are blowing much harder than the trombones and tuba, but much less air quantity actually goes into the trumpet and horns, especially in the high register.

The goal of efficient high brass tone production is to have the action of the air at the beginning of the tone generation process. Combined with a strong and healthy mental image of what the player is trying to sound like, the lips and tongue will gradually begin to react in balance with the air to create the desired sound."

The entire article is found at:
John Hagstrom Article


And then read these words from another Chicago player:

In the recent article by Jay Friedman Winning trumpet audition strategies he has a very intriguing comment about air:

Quote:

If the air starts quickly enough, then the body can stay relaxed and assume its vital function as a resonating chamber. If the air starts too slow, then the body must push air in the middle of the note, AND THE WHOLE THING IS RUINED. I can not stress the importance of this statement enough.



Hope this helps!
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Last edited by Derek Reaban on Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: More Air....... Reply with quote

weekendwarrior wrote:
How much more air does the Chicago School require?

WW


The following is my opinion. Take it FWIW.

No more than any other school of thought. However, many players use too little air support in their playing, particularly in the lower and middle registers. As Derek pointed out, it takes less air flow in the upper register. In fact, I suspect many players tend to overblow more in the upper register, seeking to provide the needed lip tension with excessive air "force". They get the tension, but really don't need the air, or don't apply it effectively. But, that's another discussion...

Back to players using too little air "support" (flow, whatever): this has been pretty well documented in sources such as the ITG Journal (I'd have to search for articles, but there are several). Specifically, thre have been studies showing that most professional players use far more air than most amateurs. The air helps support the lips, freeing them to buzz without excessive mpc pressure. This makes for a full, rich sound without excessive tension, and increases enduarance dramatically.

And, the mental concept that helps with air support, is "wind". Air in motion, making song -- song and wind. What creates full rich sound is a proper mental image (the song in your mind) projected through the horn with minimal tension, which means letting the wind (air) do the work. How much wind? Just enough, of course!

Song and wind is our school, a pedagogy based upon letting mental images lead the body into producing great sound. The teacher has (needs) the understanding of all the physics behind it; the student's goal is to create and play to the sound in his (or her) mind, guided by the teacher. It's a powerful way to learn to play.

All IMHO, of course. - Don
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mattdalton
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek -
Those are very apt quotes from John Hagstrom and Jay Friedman, and I'm glad you posted them. The points "action of the air at the beginning of the tone generation" and "if the air starts quickly enough..." are so important.

I find that when I have problems with my attacks, the fix is usually one of getting the right (fast enough) air speed at the beginning of the note. I've seen this in students too. When I read Jay Friedman's article and saw the quote you posted plus another line reading "the large core is caused by a fast moving air stream, emanating from a good sized source at the beginning of notes," it really spoke to me as something to focus on.

The simplicity and effectiveness of song and wind is great, but this additional specific point about how to use the wind helps bring it all together.
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jfmaulding
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: More Air....... Reply with quote

weekendwarrior wrote:
How much more air does the Chicago School require?

WW


I double on Trumpet and Trombone. I was a trombone major in college and studied with Frank Chrisafulli. For me...the air amount necessary for trumpet is easy. It is when you get to the larger brass instruments that it really becomes a challange. And as far as how much air....just "sing" the part what you want to play. Listen to sound you are producing with your voice and reproduce it on your trumpet.

Do you want to create a very "large" sound using a big wide open throat? It probably requires more "air volume" than producing a smaller sound with your throat closed up.

Just try the different vocal sounds and see how much air it takes to sing the different sounds.

If you really want an experience...try doing this on a tuba.
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weekendwarrior
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I take a big breath before short phrases, I tend to get stacked resulting in me having more tension and having to release air after I'm done playing.

WW
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jfmaulding
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weekendwarrior wrote:
When I take a big breath before short phrases, I tend to get stacked resulting in me having more tension and having to release air after I'm done playing.

WW


There is a difference in air volume and air pressure. If, when you are taking in a big breath, your chest is basically not moving but your lungs are directed into your diaphram area, then your stomach protrudes. You hold your stomach out with your stomach muscles and you now have a large volume of air but very little pressure existing.

Most people breathe musically wrong and normal breathing techniques will lead to added pressure when you take in a lot of air. Proper musical posture and proper musical breathing techniques will not increase your pressure with a lot of air.

If I play something short with a lot of air, then I still have a supply of available air...but no pressure. Either bad posture, bad breathing techniques or closing of the throat can produce pressure with lots of air.

I hope this makes some sense. I prabably didn't explain it very well but maybe someone else can do a better job.
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Holton TR150 with F
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