Standard C Major Scale

QuietLoud · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 649

I decided to try playing the standard C Major scale on a B-flat trumpet. I worked out the fingering based on Peter Gelling's beginner book. I tried it. Now, I should add that the trumpet I played it on was used and repaired, and the repairs are not perfect. The result seemed pretty far off. So I was thinking about re-adjusting the slides and lipping. But I thought that before I tried that, I wanted to see if I could find a fingering that was closer. So I replaced one note, and then another, and another, and came up with this:

C(1+3), D(3), E(2), F(1+3), G(1), A(2+3), B(1+2+3), C(1+3)

If you guys read the usual trumpet music, think of this as a "D Major" scale fingering.

This is very odd. The "G" should be the same as "C" and the "E(2)" sounds flat, but the alternative would be "E(open)" which cannot be right.
_________________
I am NOT a Contrarian!

MySpace: Search for "Mobile Writer"

Entertainment: Iron Chef America, BBC Radio 2: Listen To The Band. Making strange noises on brass instruments. Other stuff.

LittleRusty · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject:

I was having a hard time reconciling your notation so I put it into the more common trumpet notation (as I know it):

D(1+3), E(3), F#(2), G(1+3), A(1), B(2+3), C#(1+2+3), D(1+3)

Or

_D__E__F#__G___A__B__C#_D
101 001 010 101 100 011 111 101 - your fingerings
101 110 010 000 110 010 110 100 - standard fingerings
OK OK OK OK NO NO OK OK

The E, G C# and high D all are using alternative fingerings to the preferred fingerings as I was taught. They are acceptable when needed to bring the notes in tune.

For the A you are using the fingering for a A# or Bb. The B is using an alternative fingering for C.

The C and G are only fingered the same if you are talking the Bb trumpet's C and G and not the piano's C and G (which is what I believe you are describing here). The trumpet's C is really a Bb on the piano.

Hardyt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Sep 2005 Posts: 668

Why so many alternate fingerings? Plus a couple of fingerings are wrong.
_________________
One hears such sounds, and what can one say but..."Salieri."

Bb Getzen Eterna
Bb BACH 37
C Bach 229

LittleRusty · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject:

Hardy,

You are referring to QL's post and not mine, right? If I have some wrong let me know and I will fix my post.

Hardyt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Sep 2005 Posts: 668

QuietLoud · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 649

LittleRusty · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject:

Do yourself a favor and stop using non-standard trumpet terms.

C on trumpet is always 000. This is the same whether you are using a Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A or Bb trumpet.

101 is the fingering for a D.

I don't know what charts you are using, but while all the fingerings you posted in your latest post will work, the ones noted below are non-standard alternate fingerings. Most of the time the standard fingerings play more in tune, but alternates are used to help intonation on some horns or in passages where the alternates help facilitate speed and accuarcy of fingering.

You Std
000 000 - C (what you call B)
101 101 - D
001 110 - E (your's is an alternate fingering)
010 010 - F#
000 000 - G
001 110 - A (Yours is an alternate fingering)
101 010 - B
001 110 - C# (Yours is an alternate fingering)
101 100 - D (Yours is an alternate fingering)

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you need to get a teacher right away, before you develop any more bad habits. You are starting to develop at least two now - one is thinking of the trumpet in C, not Bb, and the other is you are using some really non-standard fingerings. They aren't wrong in the sense of "wrong notes", but they are wrong in the sense of "reduced flexibility" and "poorer intonation". And who knows if your embouchure is right or not.

bilboinsa · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject:

QuietLoud:

I agree that you are getting into a very confusing area. Just keep to the basic fingerings and work on transposition skills, if you need to. Good Luck,
_________________
Doug Walsdorf

Schilke B2;
Kanstul 1525;
1927 Conn 22B
1970 B&H Regent
"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort."
http://www.myspace.com/schilkeb2
Member: http://xeml.buglesacrossamerica.org/

Hardyt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Sep 2005 Posts: 668

QL enjoys thinking of the Bb in terms of a C instrument. I noticed that on one of his first post about a month ago.

Being an engineer his mind is trained to think a little dfferently than the rest of us.

_________________
One hears such sounds, and what can one say but..."Salieri."

Bb Getzen Eterna
Bb BACH 37
C Bach 229

QuietLoud · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 649

Little Rusty: Much thanks! I will print out your corrections and will use most of them. I think I will stay with subbing 001 for 110 for now. I have tried both and see no advantage to 110. On the other hand, I like the idea of using the 3rd valve as much as possible, because if water collects in it, I can dump it. Does anyone know which direction the air blows in the slides? Is it coming in the upper tube and going out the lower tube (which should help clear the slide) or is the air blowing in the other direction?

LittleRusty · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject:

QL,

Good luck. I always have wished that the trumpet notation for notes was the way you are using it, not the way it is, but hey, if it were easy everyone would play the trumpet.

BTW, your story is not that much different than mine.

plp · Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:20 am Post subject:

I've always found the binary system of notating fingerings to be the easiest, and discovered several folks that arrived at the same place independent of one another here.

000 as open, 010 2nd valve, etc. also lends itself to slide position for trombone just as effectively, once you get used to the code.