Intonation problems

[SD-Vic]

Hi All,

It's now about four or five weeks into my comeback (15 year layoff). I was in Jazz Ensemble rehersal and all seemed well until a chart we were sight reading had Mezzo Forte written. As we played, I noticed someone was really out of tune. I listened..., it was me. I've always had a good ear, have always been in control of my trumpet, and if things went bad with my intonation I could usually "lip-it" a bit, and make any needed tuning slide adjustments. Nothing I did through that rehersal could fix my intonation when I was playing Forte and under. The next night was concert band. Same problems. This is the fourth day now with intonation problems which seem to disappear when I play above forte. I can only think this issue may have to do with my support when playing soft, but I've never had to confront it before because I've never had intonation problems like this before (in the past that is). Are there support exercises or anything that can help me through this "break-in" period? Or is this just an acclimation period that I need to be patient with?
_________________
Vic
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"...now if I can only get that piece of meatloaf out of the crook of my 2nd valve slide from last month's gig in Las Vegas."

[swthiel]

First -- kudos for finding a place to play right away! That will do you a lot more good that the "playing for my own amazement" I did in previous comebacks. Finding places to play has been one of the things that has made this comeback successful.

Now, a few comments and questions. I'm an amateur, so you should consider the source and maybe get a second opinion before you take action. Think of these as things to think about, rather than as firm prescriptions.

• A good teacher can probably give you some really good help at this point. Find a teacher if you haven't already done so.
  
  
• When you're out of tune, are you sharp or flat? If you're sharp, I'd look to excess tension rather than insufficient support (although maintaining good support is always a good idea). If you're flat, you might be under-supporting. Regardless of volume, and regardless of the root cause for the intonation issues you described, you need to find the pitch center and play there.
  
  
• Is your sound different when you play at the lower dynamics?
  
  
• Since you're only five weeks in, you might just be dealing with some inconsistency in how you're playing. Keep your ears open, but don't obsess about the dynamics thing. Keep working you your fundamentals with confidence that you're improving!
  
  
• Do you practice long tones that go through your entire dynamic range, and do you use a tuner when you practice them? The exercise that's in my routine has me start at a soft volume, crescendo to my loudest over four beats, then diminuendo to my softest sound over eight beats. I use a tuner to make sure the pitch stays constant. I do this at MM=60, from second line G down to low F#, then from second line G up to maybe a third space E. Of course, you should play these with your very best sound through the whole dynamic range.
  
  You might modify this by doing long tones starting at a loud dynamic and doing a diminuendo over eight to twelve beats, going to the softest volume you can reach while maintaining good intonation and good sound. If you're going to try this, I'd just work it from second line G down until the you can do that with a beautiful, resonant, in-tune sound. (This is Group 15 in the Irons book.) Use a metronome and a tuner!

Hope this helps!
_________________
Steve Thiel

[shastastan]

Great suggestions from Steve. I'm even less qualified to analyze your problem. I can only tell you that I had a similar problem which only recently is getting rectified. It just has taken me a long time to build up an embouchure after 50 years off the horn. I've been back a year now. What worked for me is lot's of lip slur exercises and playing some chromatics in the lower register (Clarke Tech Studies Ex. #1). I had help from lessons as well.

Stan

[SD-Vic]

Thanks for the tips. Up to this point, I've been doing many of them with the exception of using a tuner (but I can usually tell with my ear alone) and getting a teacher. I've been thinking of Flip Oakes as a teacher, and the Principal for the San Diego Symphony teaches too (I forget his name) from what someone told me. My lips and my diaphram have been a bit out of sorts also (coinciding with the intonation issue). I'm thinking that in my older age that working out at the gym may help strengthen my inner core (if you will), implementing high intensity lifts like squats, dead lifts, power clean, and so forth with an addition of a well rounded workout. If I feel stronger, I may have better control at playing lower dynamics. It shouldn't hurt trying, and if anything I'm at least going to get healthier. I've been fortunate, living in San Diego, there are many groups within a 25 mile radius that I can play with so it wasn't difficult for me to jump into concert band and jazz ensemble. I've actually hooked up with some old friends in jazz ensemble and we're talking about starting a six-piece combo to do some gigs around town.
_________________
Vic
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"...now if I can only get that piece of meatloaf out of the crook of my 2nd valve slide from last month's gig in Las Vegas."

[david80J]

That is where sound trax and MMO cds with music have helped me because I listen to the professional soloist and then try to match his tone as I am playing the song along with him. I use the version with the soloist playing to practice sometime and match his tone. This helps me develop my intonation. I notice as I begin playing, I sound more and more like he does.

David Clark