Can't Memorize Music Anymore

[david80J]

Thank You Rich G for giving such a detailed answer. I was a little confused as to what you are considering short term memory loss. For instance if you tell me 10 different songs and ask me to remember them 10 minutes later, I might remember 5 of them; is that short term memory loss. The key thing I think is interesting; do you ever get in the middle of a song and forget the key you are playing. I think part of it is that I get emotionally involved in playing the song and this contributes. The thing about remembering names is very present also. Anyway thanks for your knowledge about the subject.

David Clark
Longview, Texas

[Rich G]

[Billh]

Rich,

Your posts are absolutely fascinating, and very welcome - they are not “too long”. I’ve noticed that rote memorization is, and always has been difficult for me. If, for example, I was required to memorize the capitals of 50 states, it was unpleasant work, and I had to force myself to do it. On the other hand, when I was fascinated, or even very interested in a subject, I could (and pretty much still can at age 63), remember copious amounts of information verbatim. I don’t know if this is a character flaw, or as ladies might claim, symptomatic of the deficiencies of the missing leg on our Y chromosome. Also, I have noticed over the years that some piece of complicated material, such as a bit of molecular biology, will suddenly come to mind and I am aware I am being warned I have to recommit what is suddenly in my consciousness to memory, or lose it. It requires a bit of effort to go over and recall the info on this subject matter once again, but if I make that effort it is retained somewhere. What is that all about? Cells dying, thus a sudden requirement to restore it elsewhere?

When I learn to play the cornet, I was taught using the Arbans book. What I never learned is how to play the wonderful ballads Bobby Hackett played so beautifully, or the great old Dixieland classics. I started taking piano lessons last year, and because you have both hands and two clefs to mess with (talk about requiring new memory paths...) you begin to get a sense of chords, etc. At least I finally did. Typically, I assume, my teacher had me playing and learning scales. I would learn them for a week, play them, but three weeks later I would have to look to see how many sharps or flats were needed. About a week ago I bought a “cocktail” piano course intended to make people learn to play my ear and memory (http://www.sudnow.com/). As I listened to the spiel on the CDs (Sudnow is a clinical psychologist as well as an incredible piano player) I learned that melodies consist primarily of notes within the key signature (I may have been the only person to whom this came as a revelation), as well as how various notes in chords can be added as “voicing”. Suddenly knowing the scales took on new meaning. I started practicing them on the cornet to help me remember my piano scales and almost immediately noticed they all sounded the same. It dawned on me this is because the spacing is the same, whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half, so therefore all the number of sharps or flats do is provide these same intervals, regardless of the key used to begin an octave. Another revelation, and also one that proved to be useful. I looked at a circle of 5th chart, and within a few minutes memorized what previously eluded me. This was done (I think) using the pattern you described in learning the alphabet and seeing an advantage to learning the information. I can’t give you any details of the Sudnow method yet, except to say his technique seems to be based upon knowing the melody and the key signature, and playing the notes based upon those facts. He claims the first song (Misty) will be the most difficult to learn, and the next one (if memory serves me correctly) will be 10 times easier, and this continues until you can simply play by ear, beginning on any key (you have to memorize all of the scales and be able to play all of them within 2.5 minutes). Maybe his technique, or some variations of it would help solve the old people song memory issue?

(Whew - talk about long winded....)

Bill

[shastastan]

Maybe one of our psychologists on here can explain to me why I now see charts for some music in my mind as I can also hear the notes on that chart. I don't recall this back in high school at all except that I just heard the notes in my head. In other words, it seems like I'm now a visual learner as opposed to just an auditory learner. Somehow I'm thinking that this is not a good thing. Any comments please?

Stan

[chopissimo]

Wow! What a resource we have in the person of Rich G! Thank you very much for these very informative posts.

I tend to remember better the pieces that I like! Seems that the fun and pleasure factor stimulates the learning and memorization process. The way my brain works is that I need to write or draw something I want to remember, then it's set. For the trumpet (and other instruments) fingering can replace the handwriting.

Chase Sanborn suggests practicing the fingering alone without actually playing a piece. This seems to work!

I guess everyone brains is wired differently, although some trick or tips will help in many ways.

Interesting subject, thanks to all who contribute.

_________________
Fran�ois
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'48 Conn 22B New York Symphony
'68 Conn Director (still going strong!)

Playing "bop" is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing.
-- Duke Ellington

[conemaugh]

David,

I just joined this forum because I am about to take up trumpet playing after a 40+ year hiatis. I exited this thread to register and forgot how to get back in. Ouch! I'll let you know how my trumpet memory works once I can sustain a note... I'm buying a new trumpet today.

Let's see to play a Db is that 1-2-3 or 2-3...

Michael
_________________
---------------------------------------------
Remember: start slow then taper off.

[conemaugh]

[hose]

david80J

There have been some great posts on this thread and I have learned much from the reading.

I am over 60. A few years ago I decided to challenge myself to see if I could get an investment securities license as it did pertain somewhat to my work. It involved studying material and passing a test. Most of the subject matter was pure memorization. Dry, drab, uninteresting stuff that meant very little to doing the job. It had no tune to it! I struggled daily for 6 weeks trying the workbook practice tests and failing miserably to the point of admitting that maybe I can't do this because I was too old and my brain cells were dead. THEY WERE NOT DEAD! Just dormant from not being used. At the six week mark about the time I gave myself permission to fail, almost overnight, everything started to click. I started getting 90 practice questions right out of 100 instead of 50. I passed the test, got my license and never looked back. I think most of us fall into the category of "use it or loose it". Much like a muscle that has not been used for awhile, it takes time to build it back.
_________________
Dave Wisner

Picketts
Yamaha 6335RC
Yamaha 8335RS
Lawler Flugel
Kanstul cornet

[chopissimo]

We all know that "peer pressure" can work both ways: to discourage people from learning something because of their age, or coax people to learn something despite of their age.

Now, age is a controversial subject (too long to cover here!).

Nevertheless, the more we stay alert intellectually and use our brains, the more we can achieve! And the more the brain gets used the more it can learn due to its ability to make connexions between things and fire up cell activity that would otherwise be dormant.

My theory, anyways... There are too many proofs of that to be cited here.
_________________
Fran�ois
----------
'48 Conn 22B New York Symphony
'68 Conn Director (still going strong!)

Playing "bop" is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing.
-- Duke Ellington

[david80J]

You guys have certainly enlightened me about the subject. You have got me trying all kinds of things. The one thing that I would like to bring up is the fact that playing in front of 800 plus people can have a terrific effect on the old memory. I use the music in front of me to focus and quieten the nerves down. This might be a whole new subject but I just can't stand the thought of misplaying a note, expecially as loud as a trumpet is in a large building as a church. Since dstep challenged me to try to memorize amazing grace; I play it in many graveside services, I can truthfully say that I can't even remember the first note after a few days. Of course, I can play amazing grace without the music by starting on any note, but I will fumble around on several notes and I am not willing to take that chance in public. In the church and on dining gigs I am usually playing to sound trax that I have developed and written the music for and there would be far to many to memorize. It is complicated enough for me to keep them in order on my Ipod and Peavy Escort Sound system. As many of you have said, we are all blessed with different gifts and skills and to bad that we can't all have all of them.

David Clark
Selmer Paris Chorus 80J with a GR 66MS

[maeissin]

[Psalm98:6]

You guys are cracking me up...I can so relate. I played in grade school and quit, came back for a time, quit, came back, etc.. I repeated this scenario about 10 times. I'm 61 and my current run is 4+ years. I used to warm up every time with Cherry Pink and Apple Blossom White, someone else mentioned that. I can still play it from memory. I've reached the point that I don't care about memorizing anymore. I play 9 songs along with the congregation, piano and organ in church every Sunday. 5 in the morning service 4 in the evening. Also sometimes do an offertory special with the piano and organ. Also solo specials with CD accompaniment. I have my stand in front of me all the time. When I do a special I stand up and raise up the stand. I'm enjoying it so much and people are always comeing up to me and telling me how much it adds to the service. I have done this in several churches as we have moved, and I always start out by myself, but pretty soon instruments come out of the woodwork. We even get kids who play in school to join us sometimes. If I never memorize another song, it's fine with me. Maybe it's because I'm an old buzzard, but it's great just like it is.
Rick
_________________
Rick
Bach Strad B-flat
Blessing Artist B-flat
Unknown brand C trumpet

[shastastan]

Hi Rick. Thanks for sharing that. I play mostly in church as well. I guess with my glasses to see, I have to play into the stand. Maybe that makes me feel self-conscious when standing in front of the congregation. I hate to ask our organist to do more rehearsing since she's getting on in years (even more than me at 66), so I play with a cd many times. I've now got the nickname of K.C. (karaoke curmudgeon)

Stan

[Psalm98:6]

I've now got the nickname of K.C. (karaoke curmudgeon)
Stan[/quote]
Hey Stan, I bet you're not as "cranky" as you'd have everyone believe.
Rick

_________________
Rick
Bach Strad B-flat
Blessing Artist B-flat
Unknown brand C trumpet