Restarting SA advice needed.

[trjeam]

Last year I started to do the SA method without realizing how much time it would take to do the lessons every single day. It was a huge mistake on my part. At first I started out fine until I got to lesson 20. My schedule really started to punish me. I had church band, marching band, all county band, county jazz band and all these different things to do. I would usually come straight home from school spend 3 hours on Claude Gordon stuff then go back to school for a band practice for 2 more hours of lead playing. I did this type of work for about 3 weeks. Then I started to see that my playing just got weaker and weaker so then I realized that I had been over playing and that's when I realized that I didn't have the time to fit the claude gordon system into that part of the year. So I pretty much just dropped the system.

Know a year later and i'm not going to lie to you guys. My playing is much better and I'm much stronger my range is increasing constantly and my lip slurs that I use to struggle with are really coming allong. The other day I started to do one of the lessons of SA and everything just came much easier to me. So I'm not sure about what do. Right know I don't have any real method that I'm using or any real method that explains why I'm improving. Maybe it's all the work from last year it's paying off know. Right know I'm basically just playing music and once in a while I'll get out the Clarke's tech. studies book out or the walter m. smith lip slur book out. But that's only like a once a week thing for 30 minutes.


So right know i'm not sure if wether I should restart doing the lessons or what...

I really want to pick back up on the SA book because it taught me allot of ideas that helped me keep in shape while I got off the book and it also polished allot of my techinical abilities.

I don't know if any of you guys have been in this type of situation where you just get asked to play so much that you can't fit a demanding method like SA into your playing. How do you guys work that out?
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[jakepainter]

I too have been doing this Claude stuff for just over a year, and also have a heavy schedule. i have to admit i stopped doing the lesson plans as John set out for me after about lesson 17, BUT i still use bits of it every day. Im not sure what the official line would be from John but i have found that i have personalised the Claude Gordon Routine to suit my daily needs, and it is working well for me. There are some bits of the Claude stuff that for my daily playing i don't need as much as others, eg double tonguing, i would love to improve this but the reality is i never need to use it much, i mostly play commercial/latin/salsa/pop type stuff and what i need for that is:

1)good sound
2)good endurance
3)good range


untill i get some more free time i am practising what i need to at the moment, on a latin gig no one gives a s**t if you can double tongue well !

hope that helps !

jake

[mark936]

What I do is attempt to do the SA book only. Copy the two or three pages and always carry them around with you.

I'm on sixteen for about the last five months. Takes about 25 minutes for first part, I rest awhile and then 45 minutes on the going up part.

This will help maintain your range and embouchure. Consider not doing it on a performance day and also not just prior to a rehearsal.

Claude always gave me an exercise for 30 days so don't think you need to burn thru them weekly. We're in it for the long run, twenty years from now.

Also, what killed me was all the time it takes to do the prescribed exercises. Too bad someone didn't figure out how to do Clarke style exercises but in jazz keys. Learn your dim. and minor scales at the same time working on tonguing.

Claude was preparing students to play for long periods and to be able to play anything, thus the mechanical exercises.

I defer to John and Eric though. If you have the time.

edit= defer not difer

[ This Message was edited by: mark936 on 2003-01-24 14:10 ]

[Blue Devil]

George -

I think it's easy to see that SA is a LOT of work. Just like you, I didn't realize just how much of a committment it would be until I finished the first couple of lessons. I thought that it might be an hour or so each day, and the first couple of lessons were. The lessons did keep on building until they reached three or four hours to complete everything each day.

It almost sounds like you spent only one week on each lesson instead of two (if that's not correct, my apolgies). The same thing that happened to you happened to me in the past when I had some unsuccessful attempts with SA. Then, I was only spending one week on each lesson (in addition to all of my other playing committments - similar to your schedule), and I noticed too that my playing and sound got weaker and weaker - ironically after the same amount of time as you. I noticed this after about three weeks.

This time around with SA, from advice that I saw here on TH, I have been spending two weeks on each lesson to avoid progressing too quickly, and that has made a world of difference. Doing this, you start to progress very methodically and at a very steady pace. There have been some lessons earlier on, where they seemed to be pretty demanding, and I was able to notice fatigue more easily when I went to a rehearsal later that day or something, but that has also stabilized for me, and now I can see the strength build up little by little each day. The more consistent someone is with these lessons, the more consistent their playing becomes. I mentioned in my "one year later" post that about halfway through the first year, my most demanding day was a three hour rehearsal playing lead in a 50s/60s/70s band (K.C. and the Sunshine Band, Blues Brothers, Temptations stuff etc.) then a three or four hour job with another rock type of band, in addtion to the three or four hours of SA. Surprisingly, by that time, playing for 10 or so hours that day wasn't ridiculousy difficult.

My own personal thought on practicing "random" exercises or just going through some music that will be performed in the future is that isn't the most efficient way the improve. Don't get me wrong - playing something each day (for the most part) will probably be beneficial in some way (unless of course you were going to do something as ridiculous as blowing out your chops everyday for fun or something like that). But there are routines out there (SA being one) that are specifically designed to steadily improve one's abilities in all areas of playing. That is one of the realizations that made me want to take the plunge with SA and do it right - I realized that by me "randomly" playing stuff on my own, or practicing music that I was going to be playing, I wasn't going to improve dramatically, which at the time I wasn't. Now, it's interesting to see that over a year later with SA continuing to build myself up a solid foundation, I rarely need to practice individual pieces of music. There haven't been too many lines that I have come across in the last year that I wasn't able to "get" right away or after a group rehearsal or two - I guess another side benefit of SA.

I totally can see how SA would be something difficult for a student to undertake. With all of the activities that go on in/with schools, fitting in three or four hours of practice a day would be difficult. However, I thought the same thing about my schedule (even though I work full-time and am not a student). I thought there was no way that I could fit all of the lesson material into my schedule, and on some other failed attempts to do SA, I didn't do so well with fitting everything in. Now that you have a better musical foundation for yourself, and are also more grounded in your school activities, maybe you do want to recosider a plan of fitting SA in...only if you think it is the right thing for you. If you do decide to start it up again, I would maybe consider starting from the beginning instead of where you left off, since the book is cummulative, and you have had a longer layoff from it. I also DEFINITELY would spend two weeks on each lesson.

Bottom line, there is no easy way to get better at trumpet - it is just a lot of old-fashioned hard work. Hope any of this helps, and good luck with everything.

Mike Trzesniak

[EBjazz]

OK. Here's what I'd do. This is just general advice. SA is a book of pedal note exercises and range exercises. Part 1 and Part 2. This is what's important about SA. I never did the Clarke or others like they are outlined in SA and I don't think any Claude student did. On my site there are some of Claude's lesson plans for me.
Of course I did Clarke and Smith and Irons and St. Jacome, etc. In fact, I don't recall ever working out of SA with Claude. I was a "guinea pig" for his book Tongue Level Exercises, which is an awesome book.
Many look at SA as Claude's teachings. I say just do your pedals and range. I'd always do something before the pedals and range, in fact, I'd suggest programming it into the middle of your routine.
Don't start your day with the pedal routine.

Eb
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[ZeroMan]

EB, just to deviate slightly off topic:

What will I need in order to properly do SA? I have Clarke's Technical, Arban's and St. Jacombe (got the last in order to do PA). I went to the CG website and I got the impression that I need what I listed above, plus Clarke's Characteristic (have that too,even though I'm not going to use it anytime soon) and Setting Up Drills (don't have that), along with the Lip Flexibility stuff by Colin and Smith (have both).

Now I get the impression that I will need Irons for SA and I won't need Arban's. Is this the correct impression? I have no qualms against getting the Irons, but for now I don't have a teacher and I'm going to do it as best I can as written.

Thanks in advance for your time.

[ This Message was edited by: ZeroMan on 2003-01-26 03:33 ]

[John Mohan]

Hi there!

You should always use a Part 1 and Part 2 exercise from SA every day. Some players prefer to make this their first routine of the day, some like it to be their last. Start with the Part 1 and Part 2 from Lesson 2, and stay on each lesson 2 to 3 weeks.

In addition to the SA Part 1 and 2 routines, spend a certain amount of time on flexibilities (Irons are good), and do a Clarke Tech study each day (again stay on each articulation model of any given Clark for 2 to 3 weeks - as in KTM for 2 weeks, then K-tongue for two weeks, then Double tongue then slur for two weeks).

Figuring 1/2 hour for SA, 15 - 20 minutes for Irons (as in Groups 5 - 12), and 15 - 20 minutes for a Clarke, your daily routine wilt be about 1 hour 15 minutes or so. If you have more time, do the KTM exercise that is Exercise 1 in Claude's "Tongue Level Exercises" book right after you play the Irons. This will add about 10 more minutes to the routine. So you're still under an hour and a half a day.

SO, here it is:

1) "Systematic Approach": Lesson 2, Parts 1 and 2 (followed by Part 3 of lesson 3 to relax your lip).

Rest one hour

2) Irons Groups 5 - 9 (add another group every two weeks until you're doing 5 - 12 - more if you have time and energy)

rest 1 - 2 minutes

3) "Tongue Level Exercises": Exercise #1 in the book. Do this with a metronome, always working for more speed (but clean)

Rest 10 minutes or more

4) Clarke Tech Study #1 and Etude #1 Single Tongued (KTM) with one repeat on each exercise.

This will head any intermediate to advanced player in the right direction.

Sincerely,

John Mohan

[jakepainter]

Hi john - well thats made me happy ! thats pretty close to what i do each day, i personally find the colin flexebilities more beneficial than the Irons, especially the 2nd set. Any particular reason why you should do the irons ?

jake

[ This Message was edited by: jakepainter on 2003-01-27 07:06 ]

[trjeam]

[John Mohan]

I've been through all the mentioned books in my lessons with Claude.

I like Irons for several reasons - they start on the 1-2-3 position and move upwards (though I suppose you could do the same with Colin).

After I spend another year or so with Irons, I'll probably run the Colin book for a few years.

Then maybe Smith.

It's a long-term thing with me.

John

[ZeroMan]