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_bugleboy Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 2865
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:59 pm Post subject: MOTO PERPETUO |
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Question
Has there ever been another trumpeter who could circular breathe and double tongue this piece? |
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jophst Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2003 Posts: 3139 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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I've only heard Mendez (toungue) and Wynton (slur) it.
I still to this day flip those pages over when I come to that piece!
It's just too ridiculous! _________________ Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB |
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trpt.hick Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 2633
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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I don't want to diminish anyone's admiration for Mendez, but his sons told me this story several times in various conversations.
Rafael worked very hard on the Paganini and could play all of it pretty much flawlessly, at home. Normally, his two sons did not go to their dad's recording sessions because of school. But, on this occasion, they were really anxious to hear their pop record it, so they arranged to miss school that day.
They said that Rafael was very nervous about the recording of the MOTO. He had never performed the piece in public, nor even rehearsed it with an orchestra. At the breakfast table that morning he decided to record it in four breaths. (Still pretty amazing considering that the piece is over 4 minutes long!)
When he got the studio, he marked the best splice points in the score. He quickly wrote out a triangle (percussion) part to be played. This was so that when the editing was to be done (old analog system) the dings of the triangle would be clearly audible by the engineers. (For those of you that have not watched tape editing, the editor will slowly hand reel the tape while listening for an obvious note to stand out and cut on.)
If you listen carefully to the recording, you will hear several little dings of the triangle.....almost randomly. He added many more than 4 dings to the part so that was needed for the splice points, just to make it be more musical. But, three of those dings are splice points.
Although Mendez and his sons were a bit dissappointed that he decided to save his lip (don't forget, he recorded the rest of the album that day as well!) by not going all the way through in a straight shot, they were very pleased that only ONE TAKE WAS NEEDED for the MOTO!
Now, that's impressive!!
To my knowledge, Mendez never performed the MOTO in a concert. Does anyone out there know of a time he did?
BTW, in a clinic I attended by Mendez, he demonstrated circular breathing by double tonguing the Flight of the Bumblebee while circular breathing. I am convinced that he could have done the MOTO without technical difficulty.
Dave Hickman |
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jophst Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2003 Posts: 3139 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Terrific information Dave!!!
I still think Rafael is one of the best ever ... I don't care how he did it. His "Flight of the BumbleBee" is the most authentic to date in my opinion ... sounds most like a bee for sure than any other recording I've ever heard.
My recording of Moto would certainly have a lot of dings in it!!!!!!!!!! _________________ Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB |
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_bugleboy Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 2865
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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I was told by a friend that he saw RM do Moto in concert as an encore. He said it was amazing. I'll have to check back with him. |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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For those of you in the Chicago area and are of a particular age group, you may remember when Wally Philips ruled the morning airways on WGN radio. His audience was usually around a million listeners a day. For those not in this area, Wally was MR. BIG of radio in Chicago and was at it for over 25 years. Anyway, at least once a year, he would pull out Moto Perpetuo, play it, and wait for the phone to ring. Folks would call in positively dumbfounded anyone could play like that and only a few knew he was circular breathing.
I must have heard Moto Perpetuo 500 times in my life and I am still amazed by not only the incredible virtuosity, but the astonishing musicality he played it with. He played it better than virtually any violinist I've ever heard play it and at a faster pace than some of them take it, too. |
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gerrit2 Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 173 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:07 am Post subject: Re: MOTO PERPETUO |
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bugleboy wrote: | Question
Has there ever been another trumpeter who could circular breathe and double tongue this piece? |
Sergei Nakariakov at the age of 17/18 on his Carmen Fantasy cd. |
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_bugleboy Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 2865
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:39 am Post subject: Re: MOTO PERPETUO |
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gerrit2 wrote: |
Sergei Nakariakov at the age of 17/18 on his Carmen Fantasy cd. |
I thought I read someplace that his recording utilized splicing. He absolutely does a great job with it, but do you know for sure that he is circular breathing? Does he perform it live? |
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drboogenbroom Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 698
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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There was splicing on the Carmen cd. Says so in the album cover. Great cd though.
Kevin |
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_Happy Canuck Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 Posts: 338 Location: Toronto, ON
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Last summer I 'digitized' some of my favourite LPs, and my Mendez were in that collection. So, I just sat down and listened to MOTO and David, you are right! Every once and a while there is a 'Ding' that sounds OK but now that you set it up for me I can really understand why it was there.
David, there are many of us who can never thank you enough for providing the space and focus for the Mendez Library. I worked for a Tempe company for a while but never had/took the time to visit the Library.
I convinced my concert band last year to try the band version of 'Flirtations' but when we got the music the arrangement was limited and poor. Love the song, hated the arrangement so we eventually passed. _________________ Bill
Olds Mendez, Recording, Super, Special & Ambassador trumpets/GR Butcher 65.6M
Olds Opera, Ambassador Shepherds Crook cornets/Sparx 4B
Olds L-12 Flug/GR Butcher 65.6FL
Schilke MII trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M |
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AccentOnTrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 878
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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I don't care too much. Mendez was the greatest at what he did.
Listening to Mendez's and then listening to Wynton's is always entertaining. Wynton's not even close. |
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bulos Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2002 Posts: 515 Location: Davie,Fl by way of Clifton, NJ
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:01 am Post subject: MOTO PERPETUO breathing |
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I remember reading in the liner notes that he perfected the circular breathing in this piece by practicing it 3x's on one circular breath .................Mendez is like Houdini. _________________ Marquis de Sade: "In art, one has to kill one's father." |
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jophst Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2003 Posts: 3139 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:11 am Post subject: |
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3 X's on one circular breath! Anyone want to guess how many notes that is?
I bet playing it just once must have been easy for him then. _________________ Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB |
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gio trumpeter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 894 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by gio trumpeter on Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dennett Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 239
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: |
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drboogenbroom wrote: | There was splicing on the Carmen cd. Says so in the album cover. Great cd though.
Kevin |
Splicing? I don't remember it saying that [at work, can't look right now]. I do recall that it said they edited out the sounds of him breathing, which torqued me to no end because to me that is part of it just like the music. But I don't recall the cover saying there were splices. You sure about that? |
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nespyland Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 120
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Quoting from the Liner Notes:
"The moto perpetuo is characterized by a lightning-fast motoric impulse which keeps the listener breathless. We have reinforced this effect on our recording by eliminating the sound of Sergei Nakariakov's inhalation."
There is no mention of multiple takes or splicing of any kind. _________________ Charles T.
=================
US Army 1995-2007
Army Bands 2001 - 2007
=================
Schagerl Gansch Horn
Custom CT Mouthpiece |
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hotorangetrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2006 Posts: 930 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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nespyland wrote: | Quoting from the Liner Notes:
"The moto perpetuo is characterized by a lightning-fast motoric impulse which keeps the listener breathless. We have reinforced this effect on our recording by eliminating the sound of Sergei Nakariakov's inhalation."
There is no mention of multiple takes or splicing of any kind. |
Charles is right... thats the exact quote from the liner notes.... _________________ -----------------------------------
http://www.colbycooman.com
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8925 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: MOTO PERPETUO |
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_bugleboy wrote: | gerrit2 wrote: |
Sergei Nakariakov at the age of 17/18 on his Carmen Fantasy cd. |
I thought I read someplace that his recording utilized splicing. He absolutely does a great job with it, but do you know for sure that he is circular breathing? Does he perform it live? |
I have no insights about that particular recording but many of Sergei's recordings contain passages that clearly deminstrate circular breathing. I also seem to recall that there are YouTube videos where he does this and you can both see his fluency and hear the near perfection with his resulting phrasing. From what I've seen and heard I have no doubt he could manage brilliantly most anything, without splicing. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Enclosed is a link to Erik Veldkamp's website which contains the Mendez arrangement of Moto Perpetuo.
http://www.erikveldkamp.nl/concertos.html
I cannot begin to imagine the sheer concentration, technique, and endurance needed to play this virtually impossible piece the way Mendez did.
R. Tomasek |
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Goro Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2011 Posts: 123 Location: Portales, NM
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info. _________________ I am Goro the four arm master of gap measurement. |
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