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quikv6 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 220 Location: NYC
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: opinions on large bore Strad w/ 25 bell? |
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Hello all. I recently bought a Strad without playing it, because I felt the price was right, and that I could always turn around and sell it.
Its a large bore, 25 bell, ser# 40,xxx. Although I've only had it a few days, I am starting to formulate my opinions on it, since I never played a 25 bell, or large bore bach strad before.
I am curious to here any opinions you guys and gals might have on it (those who've played one), before divulging my own. I'm curious to see if your opinions match up to mine.
Any input is appreciated, especially since there is not much said about the large bore Bachs
Thanks
Chris _________________ -Chris |
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dschwab Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2004 Posts: 520
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by dschwab on Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LaBestia Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 362 Location: 10 minutes from NYC
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: |
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That was the horn of choice for many of the top latin players back in the 70's. |
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Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Second best horn I've ever owned. |
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quikv6 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 220 Location: NYC
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: interesting... |
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Thanks for your responses.....I can see why it would fit right in with latin style music.
Ok...here's my opinion thus far:
Great tone, great color, even in all registers, intonation is spot on, and the horn slots very well. The stuffy Bach syndrome DOES NOT apply to this horn. It plays really well above high c, with just enough resistance to "feel" where the notes lie. So far, I just have one complaint. I can't make it as "fat" as my ML 37 bell. In other words, from behing the horn, it feels like the sound is going forward only, instead of spreading slightly to the sides. Don't get me wrong...its not laser-like, or shrill by any means. Its a beatiful, rich sound, with depth and color. It just doesn't spread much. It simply goes forward.
Any other opinions, please chime in. Thanks _________________ -Chris |
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LaBestia Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 362 Location: 10 minutes from NYC
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Consider doing a PVA on it and that will probably make everything you like about the horn even better. |
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dbacon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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I've played a LB/72L for many years..... |
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quikv6 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 220 Location: NYC
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: thanks.... |
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Just curious if anyone has shared the same opinion as I have thus far (about the large bore 25 bell). I'm even more curious if anyone has a vastly different opinion of it. Keep em comin.....and thanks again
Chris _________________ -Chris |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5706 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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I hand picked a LB 25 bell Strad from Chuck Levin's in Wheaton, Maryland in 1997 and I still have it. I used it in a Latin band, Big Band and then in a Rock band and would probably still be using it if I hadn't gotten the deal I got on my Schilke B6 3 years ago. It was a good horn that I could use for just about everything - can't quite say the same thing about the B6.
That being said, it's not as good for the party band playing as my B6 and as good as it was, it just can't hold to the B6 in terms of intonation and playability. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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jblo Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 408 Location: Central PA
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: |
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The large bore with the 25 is OK for me.
The large bore with a 37 bell is even better! Tried a new horn set up like this at a music store and it's still the best Bach I've played.
I had a large bore, long model, very early Elkhart cornet with the 25 bell that I liked better than the trumpet version. _________________ Jason Blome
Bb - CarolBrass CTR-5205L-YLT-P
Cornet - CarolBrass CCR-6880-YLS-P
C - CarolBrass CTR-6262H-YSS-P-C
Flug - CarolBrass CFL-6200-RSS-L
Picc - CarolBrass CPC-7735F-YLS-P |
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wilcox96 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Posts: 525 Location: Matthews NC
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:08 am Post subject: |
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LaBestia wrote: | Consider doing a PVA on it and that will probably make everything you like about the horn even better. |
Well intentioned...but I'd have to disagree with this. The OP already said the intonation was great...free to blow...all that. No need to mess with what "ain't broke", as the saying goes.
I had the chance to play this combo of horn (I also have been playing an L bore with 72 bell for 25 yrs...as comparison). I thought it was terrific. Much of all you (the OP) described. What you might consider is that you've been playing a certain mouthpiece and now expect it to work exactly the same on this new (to you) horn. Do you think the match up might not be optimum? I doubt it is. Not to get you on a mpc safari... but let's face it. You added a new component to your equation. I just would guess you have an imbalance by using the same/old mpc with the new horn.
Best of luck to you. Sounds like you are having fun...keep goin!! _________________ Brad Wilcox
https://www.bandmix.com/wilcox96/ |
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quikv6 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 220 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:13 am Post subject: thanks! |
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thanks for the well wishes. To be honest, I don't think the mouthpiece is a factor. I don't think its the switch from a ML to a L either. I think its just the characteristics of this 25 bell that I have to get used to. I love the sound...I just want it to "spread" slightly more than it does _________________ -Chris |
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Bakerc Regular Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 94 Location: Memphis, TN
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: |
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I used to play a LR37, and it was a good instrument. However, my wife plays a LB 25 and I liked her instrument so much that after we got married I bought an older model 25 as well. I originally thought that the 25 was a little bright for my taste so when I found one with a gold brass bell I jumped on it. The 25G has the same thick core in its sound but with a little less brightness. It'll still light up when I want it to, but for me it's a great all-around horn. As mentioned above, it has great intonation and a very even blow.
I've found that the 25 bell does tend to be very directional and it can be a little hard to hear yourself in a strong section. However, I've found that it does sound very strong out in front of you and records well. FWIW, when I put in my Bach 7 mouthpiece (not 7c) the sound "fattens" up quite a bit for me. I'm not saying that a mouthpiece safari would fix everything for you, but that was my experience. Personally, I would prefer to just get used to it rather than go on a safari. _________________ 1968 Bach Strad LB 25G w/ Pilczuk
Bach Strad LB 229 C w/ Blackburn
Bach Strad Flugel (182)
Schilke XA1 cornet
1899 Boston 3 Star cornet
Schilke E3L Eb/D
Benge Piccolo trumpet
~1910's Barendsen C/Bb/A (William Frank) |
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LaBestia Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 362 Location: 10 minutes from NYC
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:26 am Post subject: |
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To Bakerc:
Just wondering what type of Pilczuk leadpipe you put on your Bach 25. How did it affect the playing characteristics of the horn? |
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StevenPSparks Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2004 Posts: 1386 Location: Daytona Beach, FL
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:43 am Post subject: |
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wilcox96 wrote: | LaBestia wrote: | Consider doing a PVA on it and that will probably make everything you like about the horn even better. |
Well intentioned...but I'd have to disagree with this. The OP already said the intonation was great...free to blow...all that. No need to mess with what "ain't broke", as the saying goes. |
Without starting a new discussion on the merits/arguments of valve alignment, I would have to disagree with you on this. It the valves are not correctly aligned, and you "like" the way it plays, then you are simply waiting for the pads/corks to wear more, changing it's playing characteristics even farther (and likely not for the better) away from the way that it was designed & intentioned, only to wonder a year or so later why you don't enjoy playing your horn as much as you did when you first got it. Sorry, but consistency is the key. Anything else is just a crap shoot..... _________________ Sparks in Daytona
"I'm older now, so don't be a blowhard"
¦\___oTTT_____
¦/ (__o¦¦¦o__) |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:10 am Post subject: |
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What's the bore on a Bach LB?
And for PVA, how long will it take for your felts to pound down, and how will you know when they have? I know even a standard re-felt made a HUGE improvement on my Bach, (43/43) that no doubt everybody else (but me) had noticed for quite some time. Changes daily, too small to notice ... _________________ "And this is life: that you know the Son, and the One who sent Him." The rest is just details |
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quikv6 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 220 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: but.... |
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But how is a pva gonna change how "fat", or "spread" a horn plays? _________________ -Chris |
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wilcox96 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Posts: 525 Location: Matthews NC
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: |
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StevenPSparks wrote: | Without starting a new discussion on the merits/arguments of valve alignment, I would have to disagree with you on this. It the valves are not correctly aligned, and you "like" the way it plays, then you are simply waiting for the pads/corks to wear more, changing it's playing characteristics even farther (and likely not for the better) away from the way that it was designed & intentioned, only to wonder a year or so later why you don't enjoy playing your horn as much as you did when you first got it. Sorry, but consistency is the key. Anything else is just a crap shoot..... |
I understand, Steven and have no problem with what you are saying. However, the whole point is that the OP wasn't complaining about how the horn "played" or "felt"...they only mentioned about how it was a different sound coming out of the bell (which is due mainly to how this 25 bell is shaped/tapered/sized...vs what they were used to). See what I mean? From the description, this didn't seem like a PVA situation. (no notion either way on this procedure) They also went from a ML to an L...on top of that. That's all a good bit of change...yet using the same mpc. Of course it's a crap shoot...but taking a look at what parts of the equation changed...
Heck...it just may simply be an ultimate dislike for the 25 bell. It is fun to experiment... Big key...take this horn out on a gig or twelve. See how you do then. That's the "real" test. _________________ Brad Wilcox
https://www.bandmix.com/wilcox96/ |
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LaBestia Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 362 Location: 10 minutes from NYC
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: |
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That's right......Horns that are very directional can drive you to drink on gigs. You don't hear yourself......you start overblowing......old ladies start complaining.....you start flapping your lips....etc. |
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quikv6 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 220 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: this is getting interesting |
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My main point of this thread was to discuss my opinions with those who have played a LB 25. I'm pretty sure its the bell that is iving me the sensation of the forward sound. (A great sound, as I said....just forward).
Has anyone swapped out a 25 bell? Has anyone
Experimented in any way to get a slightly more spread sound? (Aside from mouthpiece changes).
I really like everything else about the horn a lot. _________________ -Chris |
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