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tommy t. Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2002 Posts: 2599 Location: Wasatch Mountains
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Kanstul serial numbers |
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My granddaughter has a Kanstul model 700 trumpet. Its serial number is 33700. In Kanstul style, the slides are marked "00." Is this just an incredible coincidence or does Kanstul not use real serial numbers so the horn cannot be identified if stolen?
Tommy T. _________________ Actually, I hate music. I just do this for the money. |
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Bob Sweet Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2005 Posts: 156 Location: Sun Lakes, AZ
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is probably coincidence. My Kanstul 1501 has ser. no. 6163, and
all the slides are marked 63.
By the way, I spent a little time in the "Big Thicket" myself when I was a kid. That was about 60-odd years ago.
Bob |
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oliver king Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Posts: 1743
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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I've a Kanstul Burbank Flugel (s/n) 1979 all slides are marked '79' It is the Kanstul way of doing things I believe.
Does anyone know what serial numbers Z. Kanstul used while making horns with D. Benge? What were 'his' starting numbers? _________________ LB Bel Canto #59
Holton B47
Frankenhorn projects 1-5
Adams F1
Olds Super Tenor Trombone
Alesis QS8
B2MS3, B2GS3, |
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jhpella Regular Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 77 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Tommy I have a KTR 700 serial no. 34699 and all the slides are marked 99. _________________ John
62 Le Blanc 707 Sonic Bb
Conn 85F Flugel |
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qcm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Massachusetts
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Bob Sweet wrote: | I think it is probably coincidence. My Kanstul 1501 has ser. no. 6163, and
all the slides are marked 63. |
It's not a coincidence.
Kanstul uses the last 2 digits of the serial number for the slides to insure that the slides lapped for that specific horn are not accidentally used on another horn. Getzen does something similar as well.
It's just a quality assurance check.
-Dave _________________ Dave Edwards
Kanstuls, LA Benges and a Selmer picc. |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4825
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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qcm is correct.
Also, 5-digit serial numbers designate instruments made starting in the year 2000.
The first horns Zig made under the Kanstul label were all 3-digit, starting with "0". He was not sure if his horns would be successful (!), and a lot of the first horns were sent to various name players for them to try & give Zig feedback. He didn't keep accurate records of who got what horn.
About 15 years ago I was playing with the jazz band at Cal State LA, and a kid brought in a copper bell Kanstul with the serial number 030. This was also before Zig put any kind of model designations of his horns - the only way to tell the difference was to see the bell flare.
This horn was the now 1500. I was also playing a 1500 (#17xx) at the time, and when the kid showed me his horn I asked where did he get it, what it cost him....he said $150 at a pawn shop in East LA.
Obviously the horn was hot. I told Zig about it & asked who got 030...and he didn't have any clue. _________________ Tim Wendt
www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=148173&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be |
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Bob Sweet Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2005 Posts: 156 Location: Sun Lakes, AZ
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps I misunderstood what Tommy meant by "coincidence".
Bob |
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tommy t. Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2002 Posts: 2599 Location: Wasatch Mountains
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Just to clarify: I was interested in the correspondence of the last three digits "700" with the model number of horn, also "700." I own several Kanstul instruments and am familiar with the two digit repeat on the slides. I mentioned that not as a coincidence but to show the correspondence with Kanstul's usual practice on pro-level horns.
Having a serial number end in the model number is, in this case, a one in one thousand chance. That's the coincidence in which I was interested.
Tommy T. _________________ Actually, I hate music. I just do this for the money. |
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bkonstans1 Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 297 Location: Aurora, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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qcm wrote: | Bob Sweet wrote: | I think it is probably coincidence. My Kanstul 1501 has ser. no. 6163, and
all the slides are marked 63. |
It's not a coincidence.
Kanstul uses the last 2 digits of the serial number for the slides to insure that the slides lapped for that specific horn are not accidentally used on another horn. Getzen does something similar as well.
It's just a quality assurance check.
-Dave |
This same thing is on my Bach 37, so I assume the newer Bach models (early 2000's and up) have this feature too. _________________ Bennett Konstans
University of Illinois, Chicago Brass Band, Cavaliers Drum and Bugle Corps
Bach Strad Bb, Yamaha Xeno C, Yamaha Cornet, Couesnon Flugelhorn. GR Mouthpieces |
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mark936 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2002 Posts: 1254 Location: Bakersfield California
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone able to give me kanstul model of flugel for serial 23445 ? |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4825
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mark936 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2002 Posts: 1254 Location: Bakersfield California
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I dialed it and I think I'm signed up twice for 9.95 help. Urgh |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4825
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3670 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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The factory practice of stamping numbers on slides that correspond to the serial no. goes back to Olds, and King before that. I've seen it on LA Olds trumpets and trombones. Mr. Kanstul continues a good tradition that costs money, but is useful. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /James R. New Studio backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12705 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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tommy t. wrote: | Having a serial number end in the model number is, in this case, a one in one thousand chance. That's the coincidence in which I was interested.
Tommy T. |
Um, one in a hundred? Xx100, xx200, xx300... |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12705 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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bkonstans1 wrote: | qcm wrote: | Bob Sweet wrote: | I think it is probably coincidence. My Kanstul 1501 has ser. no. 6163, and
all the slides are marked 63. |
It's not a coincidence.
Kanstul uses the last 2 digits of the serial number for the slides to insure that the slides lapped for that specific horn are not accidentally used on another horn. Getzen does something similar as well.
It's just a quality assurance check.
-Dave |
This same thing is on my Bach 37, so I assume the newer Bach models (early 2000's and up) have this feature too. |
I will have to check my Bach when I get home, but I don't remember seeing any numbers stamped on the slides. |
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LH123 Regular Member
Joined: 24 May 2012 Posts: 76
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | bkonstans1 wrote: | qcm wrote: |
It's not a coincidence.
Kanstul uses the last 2 digits of the serial number for the slides to insure that the slides lapped for that specific horn are not accidentally used on another horn. Getzen does something similar as well.
It's just a quality assurance check.
-Dave |
This same thing is on my Bach 37, so I assume the newer Bach models (early 2000's and up) have this feature too. |
I will have to check my Bach when I get home, but I don't remember seeing any numbers stamped on the slides. |
On my new(ish) Bach, the last three digits of the serial number are engraved on the inner leg of the first slide saddle and on the valve-block side of the third slide ring. My Bach 37's serial also ends with "37"; I think that's neat. |
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AlfaFreak Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2011 Posts: 379 Location: Australia
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:56 am Post subject: |
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My Bach, purchased new in 1993 has the same, last digits of the serial engraved on the inner face of first valve saddle and inner face of 3rd slide ring (now replaced due to wear). Seems all do. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12705 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:22 am Post subject: |
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I will be in Korea for another week, but I will be very intersted to check.
I have a first valve trigger so it won't be on the saddle. |
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ghelbig Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 908 Location: Reno, NV
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:03 am Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | tommy t. wrote: | Having a serial number end in the model number is, in this case, a one in one thousand chance. That's the coincidence in which I was interested.
Tommy T. |
Um, one in a hundred? Xx100, xx200, xx300... |
No, one in one thousand: KT700 serial xx700
. |
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