Playing long runs of swung quavers

[JackD]

Hi, I've been playing trumpet for quite a long time, mostly classical, but I have a really keen interest in jazz. I would like jazz to be my forte, but I find my soloing still isn't up to it yet, and I can never quite realise what I hear in my head (not an issue with my technique, but possibly with my ear.)

One problem I often have is that I'll start on a swung passage, and after a while I either end up going round in circles or just running out of notes. I don't have this problem when playing shorter phrases, but when I try and extend a swung phrase, I eventually lose my swing and end up just playing scales.

I would really appreciate any tips on what I can work on to improve this (and yes I am trying to transcribe as much as I can!)

Thanks a lot.

Jack.

[Pedro]

Hi Jack and welcome to the Forum! You're probably going to get a lot of great responses to assist you. However, I'm assuming that you already have a good grasp of scales by way of your classical playing. My suggestion is probably going to be nothing new. However, on the technical side, explore more modes and chord progressions. Also, do a TON of listening to some of the jazz greats and NOT JUST TRUMPET PLAYERS!!! Jazz evokes a feeling. Kind of like what you bring of yourself when playing a classical solo piece. Of course there are some "givens" in that scenario but there is always some of yourself that you breathe into the piece. With that in mind, try to get into the spirit of the people you are listening to. Emulate and then slowly try making it your own. It doesn't always involve endless runs or flurries. Sometimes one note speaks and says so much. Thats the fun about jazz! Anyway, I hope this helps in some small way and by all means....HAVE FUN WITH IT MAN!!!

[FishBait]

You are running out of ideas because you are still learning the "language" of jazz improv. Yes, transcribing is a beneficial tool but learning solos is invaluable. Learn what the other greats "had to say". Memorize their solos and use some of their stuff in your playing. You'll find that you will take some of their licks and make them your own. Try it.

[marktrumpet]

Idea number 1

Accent certain notes in your lines. When you are practicing decide which beats you will accent, just play over one or two chords for a while, using the same rhythm pattern. Eventually, the rhythmic pattern you've been practicing will become a reflex, and it will come out during your performance and will help to break up the scale.

Idea number 2

Look at the way jazz players use chromaticism, targeting certain notes playing above and below them.


Disclaimer: Obviously, you are not going to conciously think about these things during a performance, these ideas are to be practiced and the ears and reflexes allow them to come out naturally during performance.

Hope this helps.

[mateoshaw]

Most of the jazz language is based on eighth notes and from seeing your post I'm gathering you're having a hard time maintaining a good swing feel.

Besides transcribing, I would also suggest practicing with a metronome ( clicking on two and four ) and try to run long eighth note passages without stopping. Start slow as this is much harder than it sounds. Focus on maintaining a really solid swing feel and stay in the "pocket".

I think often times people only transcribe for harmonic material and forget that you should also be listening for time feel and nuance. Bad time feel can be really distracting to a listener, even if you're outlining the changes effectively.

Go forth and shed

Matt

[ This Message was edited by: mateoshaw on 2003-06-19 09:38 ]

[JackD]

That was very helpful, thanks for all the replies! I'll give all these suggestions a try, I suppose it's one of those things which should come with practice and listening a lot.

Thanks again for the useful suggestions.

[tryingtolivethelife]

I don't know if you'll be really intrested in what I have to say but "heres my 10 cents my 2 cents is free"... I have always found that what gave me alot of help was when brad turner told me to outling all the chords in say a major scale. Like you know CEGB DFAC EGBD and so on, but swing it and that will give you some intersting vocabulary to play with. Also playing your chords in different ways, like 5 dom7 3 1 2(9). I am pretty sure thats not the right way to write that but I hope you hear what I'm saying. Some people find even if they just are sure where they are going to land that will help. I try to think about every note, but when you start playing a certain speed you have to just let those eigths come out of what you know. The biggest danger when trying to play some long strain of eigth notes is just to go nowhere with it. To have it be just the eigth notes. Dr. Robert Morgan was the first to tell me the thing I heard wynton quoted as saying, all about how its important to pick a motif and develope it. So a specific figure of eigth notes could be that figure... right. Man improv is hard, and the more I listen and learn the harder it gets. But I'm lovin every second of it, I hope you are to. Good luck with your journey, man

Charlie

[pocket]

1) Practice improvising without long eigth note runs -- just make up melodies. This can be a lot more satisfying to the player and the listener.
2) Practice putting chord tones and passing tones between the notes of your melodies. These become your eight notes. If you've studied classical then you know that Bach, Mozart, etc. did this constantly.
3) Play broken chords, but learn some interesting voicings, like F, A, B, E lets say for a D minor 6th, 9th chord. Just play the changes, but use interesting intervals and interesting voicings. It keeps the ear fresh.
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