Roar Softly!

CRJAZZMAN · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2001 6:39 pm Post subject:

Sort of reminds me of the kid who was trying to take 5 cookies out of the jar at one time, his hand would not fit through the opening. He could not get the cookies out until he let go and took them out one by one. I am finding out range comes with time and proper practice gaining control all the way up before you try to soar.
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dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Castle Bravo · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Apr 2003 Posts: 542

Good post, worth reviving.

groovinhigher · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:39 pm Post subject:

I agree Dave, a great book on this that has helped me a lot is Frank Minears method, everyone should check this out.

Email Frank at fmtrptman@aol.com

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[ This Message was edited by: groovinhigher on 2003-07-12 16:39 ]

Jarrett Ellis · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Posts: 649

Playing softly always helps me to balance out those louder higher faster gigs... Keeps the tone together too
-J
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Derek Reaban · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 12:15 pm Post subject:

Dave,

I remember you telling me about that lesson at one of our Wind Ensemble rehearsals several years ago. Unfortunately, I wasn't at a point where I was fully capable of understanding how this was possible (i.e. roaring softly). I’ve been spending time with the Jim Thompson Buzzing Basics books daily, and my focus during these sessions is on developing resonance. It is paying off tremendously!

At my lesson yesterday with Benny, we were discussing some intonation tendencies in Mahler 2 (Urlich) and the chorale in the 2nd Movement of Bartok Concerto for Orchestra. The Mahler is very delicate (p) and the Bartok chorale is notated with a mf dynamic. After we spent quite a bit of time experimenting with some subtle intonation adjustments and matching sound, we moved on to the brass fugue section in the 1st movement of the Bartok. In the past, I would have been very tired playing through that forte section in the Bartok. But since my focus over the past year has been geared more towards resonance instead of volume, my body has figured out what needs to happen to generate that volume (more of a byproduct of resonance) with hardly any fatigue on my chops.

I was a true believer after I recorded one of my lessons with my new mini disc player when I was getting ready for the Phoenix Symphony audition. In Mahler 5, my perception was that my dynamic level was VERY similar to Benny’s. When I got home and listened to the disc, I was shocked to see the dramatic difference in the recording levels. Benny was almost pegging out the machine, while my take of the excerpt led to levels just over half as strong. Talk about “seeing is believing”. Benny is clearly roaring softly!

I have been very conscious about this for the past 2 months, and in my lesson yesterday, Benny just said, “Whatever you’re doing, keep doing it”! And I was absolutely NOT working hard! The resultants that were ringing during the chorales were stronger, and my playing was absolutely easy. I’m finally getting a glimpse about what Uan Rasey was telling you (how many years later?).

On a side note, Mike had some old tapes of TSWE that he was passing out last year, and I got several during the break. Chris Hulett looked at one of the titles and said he already had it (a Ron Nelson piece). He commented that, “Dave Bacon has quite a weapon that he unleashes in that piece”. This certainly would highlight the idea of a “quiet roar”. Great topic!

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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona

[ This Message was edited by: Derek Reaban on 2003-07-16 15:17 ]

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

[quote]
On 2003-07-16 15:15, Derek Reaban wrote:
Dave,

I remember you telling me about that lesson at one of our Wind Ensemble rehearsals several years ago. Unfortunately, I wasn't at a point where I was fully capable of understanding how this was possible (i.e. roaring softly). I’ve been spending time with the Jim Thompson Buzzing Basics books daily, and my focus during these sessions is on developing resonance. It is paying off tremendously!

At my lesson yesterday with Benny, we were discussing some intonation tendencies in Mahler 2 (Urlich) and the chorale in the 2nd Movement of Bartok Concerto for Orchestra. The Mahler is very delicate (p) and the Bartok chorale is notated with a mf dynamic. After we spent quite a bit of time experimenting with some subtle intonation adjustments and matching sound, we moved on to the brass fugue section in the 1st movement of the Bartok. In the past, I would have been very tired playing through that forte section in the Bartok. But since my focus over the past year has been geared more towards resonance instead of volume, my body has figured out what needs to happen to generate that volume (more of a byproduct of resonance) with hardly any fatigue on my chops.

I was a true believer after I recorded one of my lessons with my new mini disc player when I was getting ready for the Phoenix Symphony audition. In Mahler 5, my perception was that my dynamic level was VERY similar to Benny’s. When I got home and listened to the disc, I was shocked to see the dramatic difference in the recording levels. Benny was almost pegging out the machine, while my take of the excerpt led to levels just over half as strong. Talk about “seeing is believing”. Benny is clearly roaring softly!

I have been very conscious about this for the past 2 months, and in my lesson yesterday, Benny just said, “Whatever you’re doing, keep doing it”! And I was absolutely NOT working hard! The resultants that were ringing during the chorales were stronger, and my playing was absolutely easy. I’m finally getting a glimpse about what Uan Rasey was telling you (how many years later?).

On a side note, Mike had some old tapes of TSWE that he was passing out last year, and I got several during the break. Chris Hulett looked at one of the titles and said he already had it (a Ron Nelson piece). He commented that, “Dave Bacon has quite a weapon that he unleashes in that piece”. This certainly would highlight the idea of a “quiet roar”. Great topic!

_________________
Derek Reaban

Hi Derek,

Chris Hulett (fantastic tuba player) is a giant (he's 6'8 or so) reason that brass section sounds so good. This is a good opportunity to point out how the overtone series can be our best friend when you play in the middle of the sound (resonate in the center of the pitch), and the lowest instruments really put out some serious tone. With Chris and Nobe (the tuba section) filling up the bottom spectrum of the overtone series it's easy to sit on top of that and allow your sound to be picked up and supported out to the back of the hall. When the complete overtone series is strong from the bottom and in tune, the trumpet's natural register complete's it, and without fighting (pitch in tune) it projects very easily. Playing in tune and playing in tone allows you to work with the accoustics of the brass instruments instead of fighting the overtone series. When guys are a bit out of tune, or they don't play a centered sound, you end up pushing against each other and the only choice you have at that point is to just play loud. Forced sound. So the best thing for a brass section to do is first play in-tone (center of the pitch), then play in-tune to line up those overtones. You know this a lot better than I do, you understand the physics behind it!

It's great to hear how well you are doing, but you were always a fine player! So what will you do when you get the Phoenix Symphony gig, engineer yourself into two guys?

Dave Bacon

lonelyangel · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 4:26 pm Post subject:

I just wanted to say Dave, fantastic posts and I totally agree, especially about the importance of using the harmonic overtones and playing in the centre of the slot. How lucky I am to play with great brass sections so often - who really feel what good intonation is all about. It makes playing lead trumpet so much easier, you can focus on the sound rather than the volume of the note and be confident that you are projecting rather than having to fight with the instrument and the pitch and forcing your sound out above the racket. Its a case of the total sound being greater than the sum of its parts when you have a good section.
I had a lesson with Uan about 9 years ago and it was an inspirational, mind expanding and spiritual experience. At the time I thought he had hardly given me anything but now I am begining to realise how important each little gem-like nugget of information was. Its taken me this long to understand what he was talking about.
Noel