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rhodf Regular Member
Joined: 09 May 2002 Posts: 97
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: A more efficient Bach 3C |
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I am looking for someone who has some experience playing Marcinkeiwicz and Stork mouthpieces to give me some real world playing advice to narrow down my search. I am looking for a more efficient and focused version of a Bach 3c. I want a good balanced sound (not laser bright or tubby dark) that I can use in a brass quintet setting that will help endurance and range without sacrificing a good sound. I have a Marcinkeiwicz 3/5C which is okay, perhaps a little bright, but doesn't give me enough chop room. After about 30 minutes of playing, my lips swell enough that it becomes difficult to get the notes to speak. I also know that shallow cups don't work well for me. A Reeves M cup is as shallow as I can go or my chops start hitting the bottom of the mouthpiece cup.
I was thinking about the Marcinkeiwicz 300 line. Which one(s) whould you suggest I try? Whick Stork mouthpieces do you think fall into this category?
Thanks. |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Have you tried a Schilke 14?
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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crzytptman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Try a Flip Oakes 3-O, or regular Wild Thing 3. I believe the WT has a 27 drill, and a little tighter bbore than the Bach. The O is 26 drill and something like a 117 bbore. Another option is the Kanstul BMV1-1/2C on a R2 or Warburton 9 bbore. Or, check out Curry. _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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Jon Arnold Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2027
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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GR 66M |
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PZ Regular Member
Joined: 26 May 2011 Posts: 90 Location: moscow, russia
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Curry BMV 3C copy
Schilke 18
Yamaha Custom Gold 14B
Giardinelli 3M
Laskey 75MD _________________ Jestadt Sinus–Line Alpha Construction GP
Oldroyd Cardinal GP
Martin Committee Deluxe 1961 SP
Harrelson Gravity GP
Flip Oakes Wild Thing SP
Ken Larson GFT XK Custom SP
Hub van Laar OIRAM flugelhorn PP
Best Brass Artemis 1C piece |
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Tim McGinley Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2005 Posts: 314 Location: Kissimmee, FL
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Try an Austin Custom Brass piece. Very well made and present a great spectrum of sound! Trent has done a remarkable job with his mouthpiece line. Certainly worth checking out! |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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PZ wrote: | Curry BMV 3C copy
Schilke 18
Yamaha Custom Gold 14B
Giardinelli 3M
Laskey 75MD |
The Curry BMV 3C version would be larger than a current Bach 3C. Not sure it that's more efficient.
The Schilke 18 is even more large than the modern 3C. Even my Schilke 14 feels bigger than a 3C - even though it's really not much, if at all according to the Kanstul Comparator. The 18 is a big bucket, though - more like a 1C.
Tom's recommendation for the Schilke 14 is good one. They also now make a plain 13 which might be worth a look.
The Yamaha 14B or the perhaps the Yamaha 14C4GP would right around the 3C size. They felt very efficient to me when I used them.
I'm not familiar enough with Laskey, Giardinelli, Marcinkeiwicz, or Stork to make any real recommendations. The Storks I have do have a somewhat flatter and more narrow rim than is typical of a Bach, so bear that in mind - it'll feel different. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Matthew Anklan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 1085 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: A more efficient Bach 3C |
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rhodf wrote: | I am looking for someone who has some experience playing Marcinkeiwicz and Stork mouthpieces to give me some real world playing advice to narrow down my search. I am looking for a more efficient and focused version of a Bach 3c. I want a good balanced sound (not laser bright or tubby dark) that I can use in a brass quintet setting that will help endurance and range without sacrificing a good sound. I have a Marcinkeiwicz 3/5C which is okay, perhaps a little bright, but doesn't give me enough chop room. After about 30 minutes of playing, my lips swell enough that it becomes difficult to get the notes to speak. I also know that shallow cups don't work well for me. A Reeves M cup is as shallow as I can go or my chops start hitting the bottom of the mouthpiece cup.
I was thinking about the Marcinkeiwicz 300 line. Which one(s) whould you suggest I try? Whick Stork mouthpieces do you think fall into this category?
Thanks. |
Nobody here has directly answered your question, and I doubt you'll get a direct answer. Regarding mouthpiece/chop issues, see a professional player in your area for a lesson and get their guidance. Efficiency rarely has anything to do with the mouthpiece alone. It has to do with they way you play and the way the mouthpiece matches the horn you're using. Additionally, all this stuff has to match what you consider to be an ideal trumpet sound. The whole system has to be in balance. Start there. _________________ Matthew Anklan
www.matthewanklan.com |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5865 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Finding a mouthpiece that balances with how you play and with your instrument is the key. Trying random mouthpieces in an unsystematic way based on others' suggestions is a guaranteed route to frustration. 6 weeks from now you are going to see Alex Yates. Don't spend another penny on mouthpieces until after that. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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PH wrote: | Finding a mouthpiece that balances with how you play and with your instrument is the key. Trying random mouthpieces in an unsystematic way based on others' suggestions is a guaranteed route to frustration. 6 weeks from now you are going to see Alex Yates. Don't spend another penny on mouthpieces until after that. |
Objection! Not in evidence!
If that's true, then of course do that. What I did, and maybe the others as well, was suggest 3Cish (if you stretch a little) a mouthpiece that's maybe $20 used and works pretty well.
But if you're paying for a fitting, then do that. There's a lot right with the GR pieces.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5865 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Objection sustained...but I'm still right. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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jazzykendall Regular Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Posts: 62 Location: Newport News, VA
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Is there something in particular that is drawing you to the two brands you mentioned? You had said that a Bob Reeves M cup is about as shallow as you can go. I played on a Bach 3c for years and my prof turned me onto the Reeves line. I play on a 43C and M with a 69 back bore and have no complaints what-so-ever with them. _________________ Kendall
Kanstul ZKT 1601
Kanstul ZKF 1525 |
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irith Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 879
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Just about every brand makes something along these lines... for starters:
GR 66M, 3M, some others
Warburton 4MC/ various backbores
Pickett 3C/various backbores
ACB 3CS
Schilke 14B
Yamaha 14B4
With Kanstul you could get a 3C top and then pick a little tighter backbore.
And that's just the beginning. Try out some pieces and pick what feels best. _________________ Bach, Schilke, Pickett mostly |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2434 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: A more efficient Bach 3C |
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rhodf wrote: | I am looking for a more efficient and focused version of a Bach 3c. |
I find the Bach 3D to be a bit more responsive and focused than the 3C, but with a similar feel to the 3C. It might be worth a try.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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hornblower33 New Member
Joined: 06 Jun 2011 Posts: 6
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: More efficient 3C |
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check out the 3Cs made by Greg Black.
Bill Fairgraves |
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dbacon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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DB
Last edited by dbacon on Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brent Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: Stork |
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I would suggest a Stork 3D. The cup is considered medium/shallow, but it doesn't sound bright at all too me. Maybe it's the 'V' shape. _________________ Brent |
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dbacon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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DB
Last edited by dbacon on Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tradjazzman Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2002 Posts: 176
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
For what's it's worth I just finished a similiar safari. I loved my Bach 3C but was hoping to find something a little more comfortable and open. Mark Curry made me a Curry 3C. for cornet and it is S' Wonderful.
I went thru the Schilke, GR, Bach, Marc, even a mint Bach MV3C. All good of course, but for me the Curry 3C. won me over. We're all different, and our cornet choice and set up is also different. But I thought I'd just pass along my findings and what worked for me.
I play a Getzen Custom 3850 copper bell cornet, and play mostly early Jazz. I like and need a nice clear tone, yet I want a little fire if I step on the gas. I just bought a Curry 3C. for my LA Benge Trumpet too. All works and sounds great. At a great price too. My other choice was a GR66M (for trumpet). A lot folks (me included) like the GR66M's too. If you like a Bach 3C that would be my choice of two to try.
Best of luck,
Ben |
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JeffM729 Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 444 Location: Parrish, FL
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Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:02 am Post subject: |
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If you are looking for a 3Cish mouthpiece that provides more range and endurance than the Bach, you might want to try a Curry 3M. The Curry M series cups are slightly shallower than the Bach C cups, but retain all the other characteristics, unlike a Bach 3D. The Bach D cups have a different rim. Then you can have the option of going with a slightly more shallow cup when needed. I also can't play shallow cups, but the Curry is deep enough to get a good legit sound and not be a problem for me.
Mark Curry makes fine mouthpieces and the price is very reasonable. |
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