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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5304 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:13 pm Post subject: "new" water key design? |
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Ran across this today. Anyone know anything about them?
http://www.pollardwaterkey.com _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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fuzzyjon79 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2003 Posts: 3014 Location: Nashville, TN
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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I spoke with the gentleman that invented/produced this new water key/spit valve. I'll see if I can get some more information. They are brand new. _________________ J. Fowler
"It takes a big ole' sack of flour, to make a big ole' pan of biscuits!" |
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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2207 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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$39.99 a pop..........
that is STEEP! _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12705 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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I thought so too. They can't be cheap to manufacture. Perhaps they will come down if they sell enough and can leverage economies of scale. |
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Brassworks Regular Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2013 Posts: 13 Location: Rome, Ga.
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:34 am Post subject: Pollard Water Key |
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The Pollard Water Key is not the same as an Amado. If you read the description on the website, you will see that the only similarity is the "press button" operation.
It is harder to manufacture, and each has to be tested for seal after the assembly. It is made in the USA, and is a precision manufactured component, not a cheap mass produced product. We are in the beginning stages of marketing, and the first production run will be completed by March 1st, 2013.
The Pollard Waterkey has several years of thought and development behind it, so just another waterkey is definitely not what this is, there would be no point. The price may be adjusted after we get numbers up, but this is a premium precision product, worth of the most expensive horns being manufactured today. www.pollardwaterkey.com _________________ Jerry Pollard
"Artistic endeavors are the building blocks of a great society" |
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Retlaw Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2006 Posts: 3263 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:20 am Post subject: |
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News to me.... If they work as described which I am sure they will then they could really take off. At least they don't look as big and ugly as the Saturn....
I always feel the lever types are very old fashioned with "corks" ! But I do like the trombones style..they are classy. I like Amado but there is no question there is room for improvement.....This just might be it.
If they are an improvement and really work I don't think $40 is expensive.... I would imagine bulk buyers would get a deal ......
Well done for these guys trying to improve our lot...
Walter _________________ "Amazing how many people listen with their eyes."
"Life is short....play nice." |
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davidkoch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 1298 Location: Everywhere
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:58 am Post subject: |
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If these pan out, it could work really well! $40 is a little steep for me right now though. I can buy amados for $8 a pop from my source and if I keep them clean I have no issues. (Screw back so they're really easy to maintain) _________________ Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic. |
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trumpaholic Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 1501 Location: Lindsay Ontario Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:08 am Post subject: |
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The amado's offered for sale by Doug Teeter, aka oldtooter, are superb and come in silver plate as well as brass. Ascetically nice and function really well. Back screws off for easy access to the piston. The best I have ever used!!! _________________ Have horn, will travel! |
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acritzer Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Posts: 830 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Retlaw wrote: | News to me.... If they work as described which I am sure they will then they could really take off. At least they don't look as big and ugly as the Saturn....
I always feel the lever types are very old fashioned with "corks" ! But I do like the trombones style..they are classy. I like Amado but there is no question there is room for improvement.....This just might be it.
If they are an improvement and really work I don't think $40 is expensive.... I would imagine bulk buyers would get a deal ......
Well done for these guys trying to improve our lot...
Walter |
Ahhh. I kind of like the way my Saturn keys look! |
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lgt0412 Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2012 Posts: 462 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:25 am Post subject: |
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I've never had a problem with my amados. But, like the rest of the parts of my many horns, I keep them well maintained. Just like I wouldn't let my tuning slide become frozen or leave crumbling old corks and felts on my pistons. Anything mechanical is eventually going to require some maintenance. For me the price difference would be a deterrent. But I don't blame anyone for trying to come up with an idea of their own and trying to market it. Good luck with the waterkey!! _________________ Van Laar B6
Bach LR19043B
Kanstul 1600
Conn 38B
Van Laar BR3 Flugel
Blessing Super Artist cornet
Greg Black Mouthpieces |
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Mark Curry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1095
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Pollard Water Key |
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Brassworks wrote: | The Pollard Water Key is not the same as an Amado. If you read the description on the website, you will see that the only similarity is the "press button" operation.
It is harder to manufacture, and each has to be tested for seal after the assembly. It is made in the USA, and is a precision manufactured component, not a cheap mass produced product. We are in the beginning stages of marketing, and the first production run will be completed by March 1st, 2013.
The Pollard Waterkey has several years of thought and development behind it, so just another waterkey is definitely not what this is, there would be no point. The price may be adjusted after we get numbers up, but this is a premium precision product, worth of the most expensive horns being manufactured today. www.pollardwaterkey.com |
Right on, Jerry!
I'm always on the lookout for the better mousetrap! I sent a gmail to you for a pre-order. Excited to get them!
Best of Luck on this venture!
mc _________________ A mouthpiece never missed a note by itself! |
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davidkoch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 1298 Location: Everywhere
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:17 am Post subject: |
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trumpaholic wrote: | The amado's offered for sale by Doug Teeter, aka oldtooter, are superb and come in silver plate as well as brass. Ascetically nice and function really well. Back screws off for easy access to the piston. The best I have ever used!!! |
I use these when I put amados on a horn.
This design does look promising. Is the $40 for one key, or is it for a pair? _________________ Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic. |
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Brassworks Regular Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2013 Posts: 13 Location: Rome, Ga.
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: www.pollardwaterkey.com |
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Those folks interested in the price only are missing the point. This is not a 5 dollar product, it is a Monette compared to a Bundy, a Rolls Royce compared to a Ford Pinto. The Amados are spit out by the thousands, these are not, and will not for some time. The precision alone makes it worth more.
If you love your Amado, stay with it. I've owned several multi-thousand dollar instruments that have the best Amado's available, and if they worked so great, I wouldn't have spent the time, money, etc to develop a better product. It works, every time. I have yet to have an Amado that didn't stick at some time.
The price can come down with volume, yes, and I have already received two multi-unit orders, and they were quoted. If you need more than a couple, shoot me an email. But I won't apologize for the quality and the superiority of my product.
Thanks to all who have remarked, I really appreciate it! _________________ Jerry Pollard
"Artistic endeavors are the building blocks of a great society" |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Sure looks like a good design to me. Self-compensating for wear over time too. If the world beats a psychopath to your door, Pogo will allow that the price will come down as demand goes up.
But, precision or not, it seems a bit steep. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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lgt0412 Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2012 Posts: 462 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Having no need for a better waterkey i can only compare it monetarily to the other available options. And having no experience with your product I in no way judge it based on its merit. It may, in deed, be the best thing since sliced bread. I hope,for you, it is. And, as you said, you obviously had enough problems that you saw a need to develop something you felt was better. As someone who has never had a problem I don't see the value at 4 times the price. That's just based on my personal experience though. Like I said in my first post whether i need it or not i hope youre very successful with this product!! _________________ Van Laar B6
Bach LR19043B
Kanstul 1600
Conn 38B
Van Laar BR3 Flugel
Blessing Super Artist cornet
Greg Black Mouthpieces |
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davidkoch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 1298 Location: Everywhere
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: www.pollardwaterkey.com |
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Brassworks wrote: | Those folks interested in the price only are missing the point. This is not a 5 dollar product, it is a Monette compared to a Bundy, a Rolls Royce compared to a Ford Pinto. The Amados are spit out by the thousands, these are not, and will not for some time. The precision alone makes it worth more.
If you love your Amado, stay with it. I've owned several multi-thousand dollar instruments that have the best Amado's available, and if they worked so great, I wouldn't have spent the time, money, etc to develop a better product. It works, every time. I have yet to have an Amado that didn't stick at some time.
The price can come down with volume, yes, and I have already received two multi-unit orders, and they were quoted. If you need more than a couple, shoot me an email. But I won't apologize for the quality and the superiority of my product.
Thanks to all who have remarked, I really appreciate it! |
I'm not trying to be negative here, but it might be easier to get the ball rolling if the prices were lower. The response here is that it's kind of a steep price. In the long run, I think having a lower price would help. Simple business. _________________ Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic. |
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Smokin Joe Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 594 Location: Somerset, Mass.
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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The price doesn't bother me one bit, good luck with your endeavor.
Joe |
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Mark Curry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1095
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: www.pollardwaterkey.com |
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davidkoch wrote: | Brassworks wrote: | Those folks interested in the price only are missing the point. This is not a 5 dollar product, it is a Monette compared to a Bundy, a Rolls Royce compared to a Ford Pinto. The Amados are spit out by the thousands, these are not, and will not for some time. The precision alone makes it worth more.
If you love your Amado, stay with it. I've owned several multi-thousand dollar instruments that have the best Amado's available, and if they worked so great, I wouldn't have spent the time, money, etc to develop a better product. It works, every time. I have yet to have an Amado that didn't stick at some time.
The price can come down with volume, yes, and I have already received two multi-unit orders, and they were quoted. If you need more than a couple, shoot me an email. But I won't apologize for the quality and the superiority of my product.
Thanks to all who have remarked, I really appreciate it! |
I'm not trying to be negative here, but it might be easier to get the ball rolling if the prices were lower. The response here is that it's kind of a steep price. In the long run, I think having a lower price would help. Simple business. |
to be fair-
have you ever looked at retail price for a Bach Stradivarius water key assembly (complete)? _________________ A mouthpiece never missed a note by itself! |
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Brassworks Regular Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2013 Posts: 13 Location: Rome, Ga.
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:21 pm Post subject: www.pollardwaterkey.com |
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The price for Bach Strad Lever keys is very high. Mouthpieces with NO moving parts are high. Saturn Keys are high. Amado keys are cheap. Trumpet cases are high, fancy buttons and valve tops are high. Having more that one trumpet is expensive. Monettes and Blackburns are high.
Those most critical aren't interested in the product, that's ok. It is for folks who need it and want it. Don't be critical of a Rolex and the Swiss who make it, just because a Timex will keep time.
I just took two more orders for several dozen more, of course there is a volume discount.
Others may cheapen my product with mere words, I add value to my product by good design and good quality.
This product will stand on its own with or without critics, because some of the people in the industry that I respect greatly are already on board. If it were an Amado I would sell it for 5 bucks, but it is a Rolls Royce, and it can't be bought for 5 bucks! I may be able to charge less when production costs are analyzed, but the Pollard Water Key is worth MORE that what it costs right now to the folks who want it. If you don't want is, it's not worth a penny.
Thanks for all remarks, critical and not critical! _________________ Jerry Pollard
"Artistic endeavors are the building blocks of a great society" |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6210
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Nice design!
Pollard drain valves seem to be designed better than Amados as far as prevention of stickiness is concerned. With good hygiene, Pollards should have an advantage due to mating surfaces. With poor hygiene, due to conical design, Pollards may leak more than Amados (as long as anything is trapped between the two conical surfaces). Maintenance should be easier compared to old-style Amados as there is no retainer ring. Newer Amado designs also do not have a retainer ring and use a screw plate or screw insert instead.
Myself, I prefer no waterkeys at all and draining through the bell. |
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