Rap isn't "music"... But could it help repopulariz

jazzman99 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Jun 2013 Posts: 535

I'm well aware that I've probably opened up a couple cans of worms with this thread, but here goes....
I think that I'm not alone in saying that "Rap isn't music." (Maybe by definition) But it's popular. More popular than jazz. Why? It's a mixture of things right? These "Hippster" kids like the lyrics that a large sum of rap songs seem to agree on: "Smokin weed and... gettin gurls..." Something to that extent.
I'm aware that a lot of what I've just said and will say is going to sound ignorant.

It probably also has something to do with the bass lines and drums, right? (Seems ignorant sounding, huh?)
All of us have heard some car 23 blocks away cranking the bass line to rap at some point in time. Some people really like that bass...
There's also the kids who think that their "Thugs and love the thug life." and all that buncha horse haucky. That helps with popularity

Bear with me, I'm getting to my point now... or soon enough...

People think jazz and think "EW." I've been around people who say they hate jazz, listen to some of it without knowing it's actually jazz, and they LOVE it. With that being said, I'm sure the same applies to rap also, but can rap help repopularize jazz? If some brilliant composer were to "borrow" a rap bass line and put it into some jazz charts that he/she composes, I think it could really help bring jazz back, especially funk.

Am I just crazy, or do you guys think that this could be the start of something?
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dstdenis · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:03 am Post subject:

That started a long time ago. Jazz rap, jazz hip hop, etc. Hip hop artists wanted to add lines played by jazz artists, especially on saxophone. This opened doors for jazz artists who were interested in doing this.

I disagree that rap isn't music. I think it is. You may not like it, and that's okay, but it's sound-in-motion, that is, with a rhythmic pulse, and that's music in my book.

At the height of its popularity, jazz was danceable. After WWII, it started evolving into music for listening, and the kids who wanted to dance moved on to other pop music and eventually rock and roll. I love listening to jazz, but I think that, if jazz musicians want to see a resurgence in the popularity of jazz, one way to do that would be to adapt it with infectious rhythms and energy that people can't help but dance to, music that young people would want to play at dance parties and dance to at clubs.
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bagmangood · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:49 am Post subject:

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Dennis78 · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 11:54 am Post subject:

No rap is not music-it is a part of hip hop just like hard bop and jazz. But I know what you're trying to say but. Rap is music it has melody, follows all principles of music composition, has a defined rhythm, tempo even all that bass has to fit into a key signature. Lets say something more like death metal isn't music. I've recently heard some rap with some backing bluegrass fiddling. And new country is the worst garbage out there. After while music is just going to homaganize and be unbearable. I think music died in the early 1990's
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agolden · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject:

Open your minds & educate yourselves guys. There's incredible music everywhere. There are a bunch of R&B/Hip-Hop artists imploring "jazz" harmony & damn good rhythmic feel. Rap & Hip-Hop is absolutely music. Good music.

Link

Link

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIen3IPVo_U30dpwJd2RDrPxYVXTplcq7
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Bill Ortiz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904

Rap music is like any other genre, there's examples with artistic merit and examples that are without-dismissing a whole style of music as "not being music" is flawed imo. In the earlier days of rap, there were two basic camps-rap that was basically party music and rap that had lyrics with social and political commentary, putting it in the same company of respected spoken word artists such as Gil Scott-Heron and the Last Poets. As "gangster rap" came into play, artistic examples often gave way to lesser examples.

Other styles of music today suffer in a similar way-look at Nicky Minaj vs. Aretha Franklin etc. Most mainstream music today is watered down and over processed, commercialized and dumbed down. There are examples of artistic rap and hip hop, just as there are examples of crap.
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stradivarius151 · Regular Member Joined: 17 Mar 2012 Posts: 24

“I hate rap music, which to me sounds like a bunch of angry men shouting, possibly because the person who was supposed to provide them with a melody never showed up”

--Dave Barry

craigtrumpet · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 1:45 pm Post subject:

Yeah, there are so many good bands out there that are authentically blending jazz and hip hop. My favorite group by fay is Artofficial! Dig:

Link

Link

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musicalmason1 · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 1:45 pm Post subject:

I don't like country music, so I guess I'll say it isn't music.

If you fart in the breeze and call it music, it is.

If the pots fall off the rack and you think it's music, it is.

John Cage 4:33 is music.

Defining and limiting any kind of art is arrogant and short sighted.

If an artist says something is art, it is.

If a person says they are an artist, they are.

Please note, none of this means the art in question will be well received, respected or widely enjoyed, but it can not be denied.
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crzytptman · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject:

Bill Ortiz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904

The problem with threads like this is that it often disintegrates to questionable comments that start to venture into racist remarks/jokes. Let's keep it from going there.
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mbradd · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 2:11 pm Post subject:

BPL · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 347

flugelnovice · Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 4:09 am Post subject:

I like nursery rhymes. I suppose someones going to tell me how artistically puny nursery rhymes are now.
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trumpet_cop · Veteran Member Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 242

furcifer · Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 6:46 am Post subject:

As the previous examples show, jazz is impervious, fundamental and transcendent to many styles. Rock, blues, pop, R&B and even rap are essentially "excerpts" from jazz. Call it "Post Bebop Phenomena", as Bebop represents the pinnacle of the most complex improvisatory music in the extant musical timeline. This isn't "rap bringing back jazz", this is jazz driving "rap" forward into something that's actually musical.

Personally, I enjoyed all of those examples above except for that ignorant ass running his mouth while the musicians were playing, LOL! (I like death metal, too, but not the "cookie monster" lyrics.)
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flugelnovice · Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 7:07 am Post subject:

Its all good until you see a live show show. Thats where it counts
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Bill Ortiz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904

First of all, to the above poster who calls the rapper in the posted clip "an ignorant ass'-what are you basing this statement on? How is he ignorant?

As to referring to rap as "nursery rhymes"-with respect I'm guessing you haven't listened to much rap. You're of course entitled to your option but it's not fair or accurate.
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LaTrompeta · Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:28 pm Post subject:

I couldn't care less about what's popular.

I play the music I play because I love it. I hope others do too, but I will continue to play it, long after anybody in the public cares.

Again, I've never cared about popularity. I think it's shallow.

Norman · Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:02 am Post subject:

I suggest this essay on rap by a great American writer.

http://www.amazon.com/Signifying-Rappers-Race-Urban-Present/dp/0880015357

It is a nice read, and it will help understanding this phenomenon why it is still so difficult to understand for may people after decades.

Rap is definitely music, and it perfectly fits as the latest form of musical expression of the African-American community.

Whether you like it or not, it is a totally different problem.
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