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AngelRvp Regular Member
Joined: 13 Feb 2008 Posts: 12 Location: Elmwood Park,NJ
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: How to practice BE |
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Dumb question here:
After doing RO1 do I then work on RI1? RO2 then RI2? Or should I do all 4 RO to then do all of the RI? When do I practice the slurs? _________________ 1993 Bach Strad 37
1997 Schilke B1
2016 Yamaha 6310z
I am not judged by the number of times I fail, but by the number of times I succeed! |
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Jon_Manness Regular Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018 Posts: 26 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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My personal routine starts with RO (1-3), then TOL (mostly Clarke 2, but also scales), then RI (currently RI3 starting on G, then high C). Once I feel like the compression is happening after RI, I expand my range with some slurs (something like ALS #14). I also sprinkle in double pedals throughout my warmup.
This might be an extreme warmup for now, but you can adjust accordingly. I do like the progression of RO->TOL->RI->Slurs because I feel like I'm building my sound, embouchure, compression, and range in the right order. _________________ Jon Manness
Stomvi VR-II Big Bell
Stomvi Master
Stomvi Elite Copper Flugel
'37 Conn 80a Cornet
'42 Conn 22b Trumpet
Stomvi-USA Mouthpieces |
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trumpetteacher1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3415 Location: Garland, Texas
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Look at the lesson plan on page 140. That should give you a clear idea of the general progression.
Regarding the RI and RO exercises, many players do RI exercises first thing in the day, and RO somewhere later in the day. And further, some players do one or the other, but not both, based on the results they are getting.
Jeff |
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tjilp Regular Member
Joined: 09 Feb 2016 Posts: 22 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:05 am Post subject: |
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My primary focus in warmup, lately (doing BE for 2.5 years now), is on RI over the whole range, from high C to low F#. I sometimes start from middle C, as good roll-in lip movement is far more important than range. Also, I sometimes reset the roll-in on any (low) note and go upward, or do low slurs. I feel it is important for me to take the roll-in down into the low register, occasionally even to the (single) pedal register.
Once having established a good roll-in feel, I proceed to the double pedals, mainly with RO#3 up to RI#4. Also RO#4. My focus is on integrating the RO into the RI.
All kinds of slurs, and TOL repetitions/scale figures, for testplaying, loosening up, connecting to the real playing feel.
During the day, when commuting on bike or in the car, I'm practicing roll-ins/lip clamp squeaks. But they cannot replace the actual roll-in exercises. |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1491 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:31 am Post subject: Re: How to practice BE |
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AngelRvp wrote: | Dumb question here:
After doing RO1 do I then work on RI1? RO2 then RI2? Or should I do all 4 RO to then do all of the RI? When do I practice the slurs? |
I guess this is very personal - but it is all about getting your chops responsive, in my humble opinion. The lips are muscles and the state of them can vary. My lips are not easily awakened before noon - hence I´ve a difficult time getting them ready for church concerts around noon.
Later on the circulation has attained its "default" state so lesser problems.
Anyhow my warm up routines have changed considerably throughout the years. Many years I used the Stampian method but eventually I found that it did not help me the way I wanted. And before that during almost 30 years I diligently practiced Ch Colins advanced lip flexibilities. Very useful but now and then I got "lip conditions". Hence I finally began with the Stamp method - but never got that "breakthrough". Lips became softer but versatility still lacking. Plus I took my first lessons ever 4 years ago....
When I began with BE, 2 1/2 years ago I started out with Roll outs, interfoliating them with Roll Ins the way Jeff outlines. Then lips slurs, tongue on lips etc. However, for me this did not suffice getting my lips ready. Since this spring I´ve adapted another routine:
1)Caruso 6 notes - a)no tongue b)tongue. This gives me an indication of the current state.
2)Laurie Frink often nr 1
3)Roll outs 1 -3 (like Jon Mannes)
4)Tongue on Lips
5)Roll Ins 1-3, on G
If I detect stiffness or lactid acid etc - I interfoliate with Roll outs
6)Probably Roll outs again (nr 1 down to "treble" pedal C, carfefully listening to the pitch, not overblowing
7)Roll ins 1-3 this time High C (or higher) - if necessary intefoliated with
6
8)Lip slurs - carefully not overdoing them
Then I switch to technical stuff in the band books.
This might not be the definite order but presently I´ve found that this routine - partly inspired by Jon Manne - seems to work excellently.
Maybe Jeff will have views on this - do feel welcome! _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tjilp Regular Member
Joined: 09 Feb 2016 Posts: 22 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:06 am Post subject: |
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tjilp wrote: | I feel it is important for me to take the roll-in down into the low register, occasionally even to the (single) pedal register. |
Sorry, must correct myself: I can't take the roll-in down into the single pedal register. For the single pedals, a bit of roll-out must be added. Likewise, you can't play above high C/D/E only on roll-in.
This is what BE is about: the balanced integration of roll-in and roll-out movements into one, single, embouchure.
My daily BE-practice then, deliberately consists of these two parts:
(1) training of the extreme positions of roll-in and roll-out (RO#1, RO#2, RI#1 to #3)
(2) integration of RI and RO into a balanced embouchure (RO#3, RO#4, RI#4, TOL, slurs). Also single pedals fall into this part, as does high register training.
Maarten |
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Bert Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 729
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Maarten,
About playing single pedals, I don't do these too often, because I see no real value, but there is this strange phenomenon that I can play a better single pedal C RI than with my normal setup. I experimented with this, though, because I suspected that this might be the actual reason to start playing single pedals: to get into a rolled-in setup, as crazy as that may sound. It didn't quite work out that way, but I can still play single pedal C RI. Maybe something to tinker with.
CU soon _________________ http://cdbaby.com/cd/triobertlochs
http://cdbaby.com/cd/lbh
http://bertlochs.blogspot.com |
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tjilp Regular Member
Joined: 09 Feb 2016 Posts: 22 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:09 am Post subject: |
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Hi Bert,
For me, the single pedals are a prolongation of the normal register, albeit for training purposes only. So I use my normal embouchure to play/test these notes. I do TOLs and slurs with them, to return to normal embouchure after a heavy RI and RO workout. Not specifically and always the single pedals, - I guess the keyword is rather TOL, to regain the regular embouchure feel.
Maarten _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet, Warburton 5MD/8* mpc
Yamaha 6310Z flugelhorn, Yamaha 11F4 mpc |
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AngelRvp Regular Member
Joined: 13 Feb 2008 Posts: 12 Location: Elmwood Park,NJ
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:57 pm Post subject: Advanced Lip Slurs |
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Should all of the ALS exercises be practiced in the RI position? _________________ 1993 Bach Strad 37
1997 Schilke B1
2016 Yamaha 6310z
I am not judged by the number of times I fail, but by the number of times I succeed! |
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Larrios Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 794 Location: Serooskerke (Walcheren), The Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:09 am Post subject: Re: Advanced Lip Slurs |
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AngelRvp wrote: | Should all of the ALS exercises be practiced in the RI position? |
No. ALS are done with your normal setup.
If you want to refine your RI, you can of course practice anything, including ALS, with a rolled in setup, but this is not for everyone. It certainly is not a requirement for practicing ALS. Only a relatively small percentage of players end up using RI as their normal setup.
Ko |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 901 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:52 am Post subject: |
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Komdu saell Seymor
concerning your chops on morning, did you try to have dinner earlier or lighter, to give more time and possibility for nocturn detoxination?
best |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1491 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:44 am Post subject: |
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JVL wrote: | Komdu saell Seymor
concerning your chops on morning, did you try to have dinner earlier or lighter, to give more time and possibility for nocturn detoxination?
best |
Mais monsieur Je suis tres modéré with booze besides I always have dinner between 15-17, early to bed, not that early to rise though, in short a truly clean-living man
No - I think this will have to do with my constitution - always been like that.
Tried everything but rising 3 hours earlier -would truly wreck my sleep.
But BE has helped me get much more "flexi" lips so in later years I´ve been able to play in church settings 1000-1230 (am) - still functioning way better, in fact much better say after 1500!
My plumbingsystem&wiring was designed&built that way!
Joyeux Noël et bonne année!
A votre santé! _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 901 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Takk Seymor and bravo for your french !
Ah ok, indeed, it's more physiological, maybe your cortisol cycle..
Anyway, keep on playing and enjoying, og... Gledileg Jol !
Best wishes |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1491 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:15 am Post subject: |
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JVL wrote: | Takk Seymor and bravo for your french !
Ah ok, indeed, it's more physiological, maybe your cortisol cycle..
Anyway, keep on playing and enjoying, og... Gledileg Jol !
Best wishes |
Although I live in Scania, once Danish, I speak Swedish so here a short lesson:
Merci/thanks=tack! Joyeux Noel/MerryChristmas=God Jul!
(In Danish:tak - glaedelig jul).
Ainsi soit il! _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 901 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: |
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sorry Seymor, these were only some icelandic words i remember
Best wishes |
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