Sound Sleeves Good or Bad??

[Bugler90]

HI:
I am currently using Dennis Wick sound booster or sleeve what ever you want to call it. I think is awesome what do you think. Is this like using a megatone mouthpiece too or is different?
Luis
_________________
Stomvi Master:French Besson:Benge
Adolf Herseth:Every time you sound good your breathing is good
Maurice Andre:Often I hear people say,� He is gifted, he doesn't need to work". This is wrong. I am convinced that I work much more than all the others

[JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR]

"Sound sleeves. good"... Tonto
"Sound sleeves, good"... Tarzan
"Fire, bad"... Frankenstein

"STC3's, boosters, sleeves, megatones, all great!"... Tom in Texas

[John Mohan]

Using a sound sleeve will effect your playing in the exact manner that using a megatone mouthpiece will - both will have no effect whatsoever, except perhaps in your imagination. Neither will really do anything thing for your playing or sound.

I think both are a waste of your money (unless the megatone mouthpiece is the first and only mouthpiece you bought in whatever size you are playing - then if it didn't cost anymore than the normal shaped mouthpiece of that size, you didn't waste any money). Neither sound sleeves nor megatone mouthpieces are going to improve your playing. Proper practice and development will improve your playing - not gimmicks and fads.

Sincerely,

John Mohan

[cperret]

Ahh, the mouthpiece sleeve...

While I agree with John Mohan that no sleeve, horn, or mouthpiece will make you play better, and that practicing is the key, etc, etc, etc (if you want to hear more of thatspeech, go to just about any thread in the Fundamentals forum,) the fact is that horns, mouthpieces, heavy valve caps, and, yes, sleeves, have a physical effect on what comes out the end of the horn.

Without going into all the physics (which is good, because I don't quite understand it all myself!) changing the weight (mass) and material (density, etc) of the mouthpiece changes the range of frequencies resonated by the horn. That's why heavy horns and heavy mouthpieces resonate more lower frequencies, and sound 'darker' than lighter ones.

So let's at least accept that these sleeves do dosomething. But how does this translate into how the horn feels and plays? Well, I own a Dennis Wick sleeve. I've always thought it looked cool, and I tried several times to play with it in college. It definitely darkens the sound, but I also perceived a subtle gain in stability, and a loss in flexibility. Which I really didn't like. Actually, I didn't like the darker sound that much, either. But that's just me.

Anyway, I know lots of guys who play Bach Megatones, or Yamaha GP's, and love 'em. They may or may not be gimmicks, but they do make a difference. And I don't see any way a heavier mouthpiece or sleeve could ever screw up your chops. But it certainly isn't going to replace time in the practice room.

Peace!
_________________
Cameron Perret

Horns: Bach 37GH, Marvin Stamm French Besson 92BA, Yamaha 6310Z Flugel

[cujazztrpt]

It works on some players, It doesn't work on some players. Begginers shouldn't even bother with gadgets like these.
_________________
Playing music is better than playing notes!
www.soundclick.com/cujazztrpt

[Billy B]

Observe how many pros use them.

[John Mohan]

[Mlockman]

I have a Mega Sleve made by Curry. This sleve fits any Schilke Mouth Piece. Price $25.00. Perfect condition.
_________________
Bach Strad 37/25
Bach Strad LT 43 /25
Bach Strad C 229 25H CL,
Couesnon Flugelhorn 1970
Warburton WCC mouthpiece
Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia
AFM

[DaveH]

I don't like "extra mass" equipment of any kind. I don't like the effect on the tone, nor the effect on the response of the instrument. I find the result to be a "dead" tone, and a sluggish response. Requires unnecessary, added effort.

Some people like the effect. I do not. I have tried both the mouthpieces and the valve caps.

No thanks...not for me...

[BrassArranger]

I tried out a Denis Wick sleeve, but felt that because it was designed to fit all mouthpieces, half the time the only part of it in contact with the mouthpiece were the two rubber rings inside it. The metal itself wasn't in full contact, therefore negating any possible alteration of sound as the extra mass wasn't really connected to the instrument.

But for the last 8 years I have used a megatone. I have found the extra mass feels great to play against, my tone opened (may be due to the slight enlargement of the backbore that I believe was built in to the megatones), but most importantly of all, it balances out the bell heavy trumpts such as a Bach so that the instrument isn't constantly trying to twist your wrist downhill at the bell end.

Having a more balanced instrument, makes playing a lot more comfortable.

I happen to a large number of pro-players who also use megatones (classical and jazz players)

Just my 2p worth!
_________________
Adrian

Brass-Forum.co.uk

Bach Strad Bb ML 43 - Bach 3C
Schilke D/Eb E2 - Gold Plate - Bach 3C
Schilke Picc P5-4 - Silver plate - Bach 3C
Besson & Co Class A Prototype Flugel

[JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR]

I strongly agree with Brass Arranger, CuJazzTrpt, and Cperret !!!

Never assume that just because something doesn't seem to work for you
personally, that is cannot have any benefit for anyone else. Adding mass
to the mouthpiece helps many people to get a more focused sound, and
significantly better slotting, and even better intonation. It also stabilizes
the overall blow of the horn, making it harder to overblow and distort in
the extreme high range and at high volumes. Don't be a conspiracy buff
just because you haven't benefited from something yourself.

People who love these mouthpieces aren't just experiencing all these
benefits "in their imaginations". Added mouthpiece mass does have a
very beneficial effect for many people who use them, but certainly not
for everyone. Saying all these experiences are just in these people's
imaginations is like saying they are fools, or mentally disturbed. This
stuff isn't just "in their imaginations", that is simply wrong.

Some of us should try to be much more respectful of others people's
experiences and opinions, and never assume that because something
doesn't benefit us personally, that all the people who say it is helping
them are just hallucinating or something. That is very insulting.

Your Friend, Tom in Texas
JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR

[trumpetmike]

[John Mohan]

[ARB]

I love the Curry sleeve I have on my Warburton bb, I'll eventually be getting another one for my other mpcs.
_________________
Allen - 'Chops-in-Hotlanta'

00 Schilke S22
77 LA Benge 5X
63 Burbank Benge C

"It's what we think we know that keeps us from knowing"

[Tootsall]

I had a Wick sound sleeve for a while. It did something. I didn't like what it did for me. I sold it.

[trptsbaker]

Sound sleeves do exactly what they are designed to do. I must have 6 of the dam things, all different, and they all affect the sound, feel, and response of the horn differently. I love 'em. They all have their place in different situations. I especially like the Holton tone intensifiers. Want a dark sound on high-G, use the one that gives you a dark sound on high-G. (Yes, I am sure that you get a dark sound on high-G with your 3C. I don't play on a 3C anymore). Or, whatever. Or, just TAKE IT OFF IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT. It's a tool, not a gimmick. Yes I am a pro player, yes I do use them. Would like to have had a couple of them when I was playing lead with Kenton AAAH! NAME DROPPER!. Using a mouthpiece weight does not preclude one from playing correctly. If you can't tell the difference, don't bother. Thank you for allowing me to vent on the sound sleeve thread. End of conversation. T.

[James B. Quick]

I have used several different weight soundsleeves, and I now have three different weights of mthpcs, custom made for me by Vladimir Fridman. I'm not sure how they affect the sound, but the feel is different. Some horns play quite a bit differently with different weight mthpces, but on other horns it seems to make little or no difference, why, I don't know. The most comforable mthpce I use has a skeletonized cup with a weight on the shank. I first tried skeletonization in the '80s. A skeletonized mthpce has some give to it that makes it more comfortable on the chops, but in terms of slotting and focus it is poorer. So, I had a weight put on the shank. Now, I have the best of both worlds in that mthpce. My heavy mthpce is useful when I want to practice really softly, and also for high register work on some of my horns. The mthpce with the standard weight and profile is the one that I use for most practice... jbqd

[JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR]

Hi John,

See the others risking being bashed by you for just telling it like it is?
ARB, Tootsall and Trptsbaker are not delusional. Neither are Bugler90,
Cperret, Cujazztrpt, DaveH, Brass Arranger, James B, Quick, myself or
any of the thousands of other players all over the world who know that
the various versions of heavy and sleeved mouthpieces do indeed make
a very big difference. And like I said in my earlier post, these mpcs don't
work magic for everyone, but they do effect the way trumpets play. You
just keep saying its all just "in our imaginations", well I just disagree.

Here's the deal, almost nothing works for everyone. You just have to
factor that into the equasion. I know that the psysics is not changing
for each person, it is just the fact that each person is different from
all others. No one piece of equipement works for everyone, that's all.

And I will say I respect your opinion, as you said you respect mine.
I too do not have the time to argue about this with you, and I suspect
you could read 500 more testimonials and still say we are all imagining
things. May peace be with you. I am still....

Your Friend, Tom in Texas
JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR
_________________
7 Monettes, 9 Taylors, 8 Courtois, 8 Stomvis
7 Lawlers, 4 Leblancs, 3 Bessons, 3 Kanstuls
2 Blackburns, 9 Schilkes, 8 Bachs, 5 Selmers
8 Yamahas, 5 Committees, 2 Edwards Gen X
4 Marcinkeiwicz, 9 Harrelsons, and 4 Eclipses

[Mr.Hollywood]

When they first came out everybody was using them, but 99.9% of those guys all stopped after a few weeks or maybe a month.

I thought they made things just feel more "stuffy".

I recall back in the early 1970's when the "lightwieght craze" was on. Everybody was playing Benges, and Schilkes, and having Giardinelli "skeletonize" their mouthpieces. Guys where also taking the front bell brace off back then. I remember players buying lightweight Bachs and taking off the first thumb saddle, all the little slide knob pulls. putting amato waterkeys on, and taking off the third valve stop rod, plus the front bell brace and anything else they could think of. THen they would weight all the parts they took off and go around telling everybody "I took 7.75 ounces off this horn."

I think all that extra weight in the mp, and on the horn (heavy caps plus all the junk Monette, and Taylor put on their horns) just makes things harder.

Chris

[bj]