Jet Tone MF

Tony Scodwell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1969

Something that everyone seems to have forgotten is the fact that at first, Bill Ratzenberger was only a financial partner in the original Jet-Tone company. Ray Amado developed the concept and pioneered the way of reproducing mouthpieces accurately with his use of a 1/4" aluminum plate traced ten times larger than the cup he was duplicating thereby reducing the error factor by ten. Of course this was long before CNC equipment was around and most everybody duplicated mouthpieces with a machine very similar to the one to one key making machines. Duplicating aside, Ray's concept for the standard line of Jet-Tone cups were inspired by the Parduba Double Cup used by his idol, Harry James. Naturally, the custom models made for Doc, Snooky, Al Hirt and Maynard later on were different from the stock line-up. Buddy Morrow and a whole bunch of great players liked the mouthpieces well enough to endorse them and Ray was very busy trying to keep up along with running his main business, a medical lab. A couple years into this venture, Ray discovered some financial shenanigans going on and split the sheets with Ratzenberger. The Ratzenberger era of Jet-Tones were somewhat uneven to say the least. I found variables in the stock line-up that were not acceptable and custom work was hit and miss at best. No wonder that the mouthpieces talked about here vary to such a degree. Ratzenberger did not have the capabilities in this area and the business went away. Revived years later in name only, these may have been worse yet. Kanstul's version of the MF piece may have been copied from the Holton model and where that stemmed from only Jim New can answer. My Holton MF piece had an extremely flat rim with straight V cup and not very large in diameter. The mouthpieces Ray Amado made for me in 1968 are still some of my favorites and in addition to my rim on a smaller diameter T-3 cup, I found a 24 throat matched best for me. Ray made two for me with Doc's set up and my rim as well and they are very similar to a 5C, which isn't much of a surprise. Please just remember that it was Ray Amado who originated the Jet_Tone concept, not anyone else.
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns available in the US only at Washington Music Center, call Lee Walkowich at 301.946.8808 or in Europe at Brass Studio Prague, call 224 816 861.

Yamahaguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992

I saw the pic of the catalog....interesting-
but did I miss where they have numbers
relating to diameters? What rim is close to .660?
Just curious, thanks!

GiveItOne · Veteran Member Joined: 19 Dec 2009 Posts: 100

Yamahaguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992

Aha!...thanks- always hated that fraction thing, but anyway

dmh737 · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:13 am Post subject:

UPDATE:

I just got one in the mail today that I purchased through the TH Marketplace. It says "JETTONE M F" and nothing else. It is in italics with the two T's crossed with a single line. It is great! A huge sound, easier upper register and a fat, brilliant lower register. Even the pedals sound good. I like it...I like it alot!

Thanks for your help guys,

Dave
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Trumpet - LA Benge 3X+
Mouthpiece - Callet VF DT 10 top
Ken Titmus KTRT6 Backbore
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GiveItOne · Veteran Member Joined: 19 Dec 2009 Posts: 100

tk1031 · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject:

I am so jealous. This thread started right after I got my Warburton MF mouthpiece top, and I love it. Now I am trying to find the original stuff, and see what thats allabout, and I can't find any! :-p COngrats man, sounds like fun.
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dmh737 · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:20 pm Post subject:

I was getting ready to order a Warburton MF top when I saw this come up in the Marketplace. Timing is everything.
_________________
Trumpet - LA Benge 3X+
Mouthpiece - Callet VF DT 10 top
Ken Titmus KTRT6 Backbore
flat.io

tk1031 · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:30 pm Post subject:

I love LOVE the Warburton piece. But I have been watching this thread, and my warburton piece may be just a little wider, and deeper than the Jet Tone MF piece. Still, a lot of fun, and an interesting mouthpiece. Just shot an email off to Mark Curry. I will report back.

Congrats on that mouthpiece, WHen I didn't want one, there were a thousand on ebay, now that I want one = nothing.
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Schagerl "Gansch" Vienna Trumpet Schagerl "Gansch" Horsdorf Heavy
Schlub "Damar" 4 valve Flugelhorn
Zirnbauer Piccolo Bd/A

ljazztrm · Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:01 am Post subject:

I have been working with Drew Wilkie's Lead model piece for less than a week. It is a smaller diameter than the MF piece and has no bite really like the jet-tone. I always loved the MF design pieces and have talked a lot here on the TH about them. My lips are quite thin though and always wanted to go smaller with the diameter. I can say Drew's piece, designed by Jim New at Kanstul, is the most efficient piece I have ever played in my life. I still can't play it on a gig and I get a little more used to it every day. I went through this same process when I was first learning to play the old Holton MF3's and, then, later on, the shallower cups offered by Greg Black, originals, and other makers. I even had Greg make me a somewhat scaled down version of the NY4 at .600 which is an awesome piece, but still too big in diameter for me...I have been using the Warburton Chad Shoopman tops, the newer models measuring in at .560 or a Warburton 14 size... and that is right around where this DW-Lead mouthpiece is. I've been messing around with Warburton backbores on this piece and, with my Carol 500T, the 7 seems best... Still experimenting with this. I'm excited though because this piece is teaching my chops to play even more efficiently. For those of you experimenting with the MF design for the first time I would just recommend to give it time for your chops to get used to the efficiency of the piece...The mouthpiece can be an amazing training tool in teaching your chops to play more efficicently. All the best, Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

shakuhachi · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Dec 2012 Posts: 195

Just an additional note for all MF-type mouthpiece lovers on the DW-Lead which is a downsized version of Giardinelli/Holton MFs (about .560 id).

First I struggled a lot to get accustomed to it..... now I know why: from the beginning I used this Kanstul custom top with a Warburton KT Backbore. After using my Wedge #27M Backbore with it (this was given to me as an advice by Dave Harrison to be close to my Schilke Faddis XL I played at that time) I recognized a more open blow. Then I again read the post of Lex who was using a Warburton 7 with the DW-Lead top.

That is what I was doing latest: trying that top with Warburton 7 and 8 Backbores. The 7 is really the one which works best for me in this combination (all #27 throat).

Still waiting for my Curry custom work on a downsized MF Calicchio version (early Groovin High prototyp from Mark) - .560 id too. May be it is somewhare fished for customs duty...After receiving it I will do a comparison between both.. seems that a more open throat/backbore works better with a MF v-cup design for me.

regards

Redhothorn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Dec 2001 Posts: 1173

I admit that I am ignorant as to the "MF" pieces; however, I thought I'd throw Roger Ingram's V-cup piece into the mix. The following is from his website -

"For the historical record: the design of this new V-cup is based on a custom-made mouthpiece crafted by Dominick Callichio for Maynard Ferguson in the 1950s. The design of the Giardinelli MF-1 was loosely modeled after this same Callichio piece in the early 1960s. In the 1990s Maynard gifted his original Callichio mouthpiece to Mr. Ingram. There are many similarities between Ingram's V-cup and Maynard's vintage Callichio. However, there are important differences: the back-bore of the Ingram V-cup mouthpiece is medium-to-open and the exact length of the back-bore's cylindrical section has been adjusted to optimize accuracy and provide greater ease of slotting in the upper registers. The taper of the cup's V has been slightly modified to improve playability. The solid brass blank for the new Ingram V-cup is an original blend of design characteristics and was carefully designed by Mr. Ingram to optimize "mass" appeal.

The inner rim diameter is 0.609. The outer rim diameter is 1.020. This mouthpiece comes stock with a #30 drill. "

ljazztrm · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:46 am Post subject:

Hey Shak! I find those MF tops to feel right around .25 a diameter bigger than they measure. I think because of the high point and soft bite of the rim. I just got a Calicchio style MF top from Derek Saidak of Legends and it is a .590 top, but it feels like a .615 I would say. A little bigger than my Shavers and Candoli. I love the sound of the Shavers and everything..but the sound of the MF is SO HUGE..man..it is just amazing. I am spending some time with it to get used to it..It seems like, as I get used to it, the sound could become very versatile too. It definitely is a bigger feel than my tiny DW-LEAD which I was playing around with too to get a feel for these tops again. And it is definitely a smaller feel than the MF jet-tone (the new re-pro which is actually a very accurate copy of the Ratzenberger piece)..that MF jet-tone feels like around a .630..That always felt too big for me.. I have pretty thin lips. Lets keep each other posted on our discoveries:-) All the best, Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

ljazztrm · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:14 am Post subject:

Hey Rusty, I never tried Roger's piece…From talking to other players I got the impression that the diameter feel was at least a .630 if not a little bigger.. would make sense since Roger's Marcinkiewicz measures around a .650 or so I think.. I'll bet it's a great mouthpiece for a lot of players who use the Shew diameter or Roger's diameter or the more commonly used bigger diameter lead pieces..sounds really good from Roger's description (and his success with it of course)..Just too big a diameter for me. Best, Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

GordonH · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:22 am Post subject:

Have you tried a 70's MF Personal from jet-tone? It has a #18 throat. Apparently the model matnard used at that point. I have one. Huge sound in the bottom register.
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Pic - Weril
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Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

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ljazztrm · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:25 am Post subject:

Yep, I should have mentioned..the repro has a tighter throat..like some of the older Ratzenberger ones.. maybe a 25 I think? Still a huge sound all over the horn.. I know there were a good amount made with the #19 throat in the 70's too...
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

ljazztrm · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:32 am Post subject:

And Roger's piece has a #30 throat right? I'll bet from players who have it that they will attest it probably gets a huge sound all over the horn too.. I think the tighter throat just makes things more efficient and the straight V cup gives it that extremely powerful sound..and coupling it with that rim design for really efficient functioning of the chops..once you get used to it.
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

cheiden · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:30 am Post subject:

garrett901 · Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject:

I'll agree with Drew !

The folks at Kanstul are the best !
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Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
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ljazztrm · Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:09 am Post subject:

It's an interesting phenom Garrett. In general, I find mouthpiece makers to be exceptionally good people. ‎ Curry, Kenny and terry at warburton, Gary and Brian at gr, Greg black, Steve dillon, reeves, Jim new at kanstul, Trent Austin, my newest guy Derek Saidak at Legends. I'm sure I missing some other cats. But I've always noticed this. In japan they teach things like archery and shakuhachi as spiritual practice. I guess in the US it's mouthpiece making..lol.
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com