A more efficient Bach 3C

lh · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:01 am Post subject:

How about a Bobby Shew Jazz?
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Paul J. · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:30 am Post subject:

I third the Curry 3M. I've got a small-letter Bach 3D, and it is more efficient than a 3C. But, the 3M sounds a great deal better, at least to my ear. And if it isn't efficient enough for you, try the 3Z.!

Paul

giakara · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:38 am Post subject:

Reeves 43C or 43M are more efficient pieces than 3C but the sound concept is very different , try to find one and test it before you buy it or find a cheep used one .

Regards
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mike ansberry · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:34 am Post subject:

John Mohan · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:32 am Post subject:

John Mohan · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:44 am Post subject:

As Dave Bacon mentioned, the Curry 3C. would be a great choice. I think it's the best version of a Bach 3C out there. The other recommendation as others have suggested would be the Bob Reeves 43C. Both are great mouthpieces. The Curry will have a little more cup volume which makes it have more room for your lips and it seems more efficient to me than a stock Bach 3C, and the Reeves is a very efficient mouthpiece, especially in the upper register. Tone from each is similar but different. It's hard to quantify. Sometimes I think the 43C sounds brighter, but other times I think the 3C. sounds brighter. I guess I'd just say there are more colors in the tone of the 43C (I know, not much of a description). I'd recommend you get both and try them each for a week. Have others listen to you and make your determinations of which to stay with using the following criteria:

• How they feel to you (and your lips).

• How they sound to other critical listeners.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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lipshurt · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:29 am Post subject:

Scott42486 · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:34 am Post subject:

I actually currently play a Reeves 43C and have played a Curry 3C at one point. I found the Reeves to be a bit deeper than the Curry. I'd highly recommend trying a Reeves 43M, that should be a bit closer to a 3C I'd believe.
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lipshurt · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:40 am Post subject:

For me, getting the 3c to be more efficient was a matter of downsizing the exact shape of the 3c cup by 2 percent. That means the cup was made smaller in all dimensions, depth, diameter, etc by the same percentage. You do that in CAD with the scaling tool. Only the cup curves, not the rim curves.

The 3c is .655 inner diameter, measured at .052 down from the high point of the rim. A 2 percent downsize end up with an inner diameter of .645. For me that downsize was the ticket for making the 3cvibe more efficient. Now I play 645 diameters on my lead piece and other pieces. Since the shape stays exactly the same with a 2percent scaling, the sound stays the same also.

I also make the 3c shape in .635 and .665 as well as .655, and they are two piece. I also think my 4 and 4 1/2 backbores are a better match for the 3c cup shape. They are a lilttle bit less curved of a backbore. Still not a straight taper though. Based on the purviance backbore .
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crzytptman · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:30 pm Post subject:

Well, I play a Mt. Vernon 3C with a 24 hole because I sound good on it. Not because it's the easiest or most "efficient". I think you can efficient yourself out of your best sound. Brass instruments and especially trumpet are physical instruments and sometimes using equipment that gets the point across requires a little "UMPH"! That's why you practice.
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Dan in Sydney · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject:

Three words: phone Karl Hammond!
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John Mohan · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject:

John Mohan · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject:

mike ansberry · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:22 pm Post subject:

Blue Trane · Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject:

Blueblue · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:54 am Post subject:

chuck in ny · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:56 am Post subject:

if size is going to be an issue with lips swelling the curry might not be a good choice. i like the curry 3C because it feels on the small side of the 3 size. the FO 3 C-O is marginally larger by specification but feels much larger on the lips.
there has to be some tears and some blood in finding your right piece. if there were some better way none of us have found it except those that spin custom pieces on CAD machines. then you adjust the program to dial in an exact size. even there you are half guessing as there is also the backbore. getting back to solid grief some standard things to try would be the curry line, probably the 3C, the FO C-O, the schilke 14, trent's ACB, and kanstul's custom piece scanned off arturo sandoval's mt. vernon 3C. if you have leisure to do this in a balanced way you can buy used pieces here and ebay as they become available. i wouldn't be surprised from your description if the schilke 14 wouldn't work for you.

iiipopes · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 565

And now for something completely different: Yamaha Bobby Shew Jazz.

By definition, it is midway between a Bach 3C and a 3D in all aspects. When I came back to trumpet this year, I dusted off my Bach 3C I bought in high school in the late '70's, and I just didn't have the stamina to blow it. So I also went in search of a more efficient 3C-style mouthpiece.

After an extensive safari, I came upon the Yamaha Bobby Shew Jazz, and studied its description and the comments about it carefully. I found a used one here on the forum, and tried it.

The title of this thread is, "A more efficient Bach 3C." With my limitations in breath support, range and stamina, I can tell you that for me the Yammy Shew Jazz does exactly that. It is slightly brighter than a 3C, but not noticeably so unless you really listen for it. I find that my breath support is much more efficient, and all other aspects of my playing are better for me with this mouthpiece on my trumpet.

I have a 3D, and it is so different with the flatter alpha angle that I bottom out on it. I have also tried the Curry C and MC, and a Yammy 14B4, and even different mouthpieces like a 7D, which felt a little small in rim diameter, a 7C, which felt thin to me, and others. For me, with the help of a friend of mine who used to teach beginning band, to help me get back up to speed, the Shew Jazz was the consensus for tone, intonation, better breath support, and carrying the phrase.

The upside is that they are relatively inexpensive new or used, and so if it doesn't work out, as all players' embouchures, horns, repertoire and requirements are different, it is an easy flip.
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chuck in ny · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:29 pm Post subject:

popes

that's a really good suggestion, common, easy to find, inexpensive. as to your observation on cup depth and degree of brightness. small changes in cup volume either way are not going to affect your sound in a significant way. they will for a very short while, you plug the piece in and blow it and hey this sounds different. it's a function of the chops and body being used to the last piece. in a shockingly short period of time the lips and brain make adjustments and then you sound precisely as you did before. it's the nature of the trumpet that you can color sound out of a small volume mouthpiece with broad latitude.
great suggestion. low buck solutions are an excellent starting point.