Harrelson Bravura vs Carol Brass 8880 (with sound clips)

gregplo · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:55 am Post subject:

I listened to all the pieces with my eyes closed, and my preference is the CarolBrass trumpet in every case.

To me, the Bravura has an almost "breathy" feeling, and the sound feels too "thick." I guess some would call that "dark," but to me it loses some of the essence of what a trumpet is supposed to sound like to my ear. It also felt to my hearing as if you were working harder to create the sound on the Bravura.

The Carol had a much "easier" sound to it...like you weren't having to work as hard to get the sound you were looking for, especially in the upper range. I did notice that the low G on the arpeggio started off flat on the way up, but it seemed to be much better when you came down the scale. Perhaps, because it is a more open blowing horn, you just need a little more support when playing below the staff. Otherwise, I liked the Carol better in every other case.

Everyone has their preferences...I prefer a more strident trumpet sound to the darker sound.
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Retlaw · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:08 am Post subject:

mbradd · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:35 am Post subject:

I think you clearly play better on the Carol. I also think your overall sound is better on the Bravura. So that brings up several questions that are often pontificated on these forums: What's more important? Sound or playability? And should a high-end professional trumpet be easier or harder to play than a lower end professional or intermediate level trumpet?

I'm firmly in the what sounds best camp, however, having said that, after a very long time of playing on a good horn that I had to fight to get the right sound and was overall difficult to play, I am now playing on an instrument that makes everything easier for me: high range easier, sound closer to what I hear in my head, easier intonation, better player feedback, better more enjoyable playing experience, etc.

So I'm also of the belief that you can find horns that are better in every way AND are easier to play. Perhaps you just really haven't found the right instrument set-up for you yet.
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gregplo · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:03 am Post subject:

So...AFP...lots of opinions and great feedback...but what do YOU think? How about your wife? Just curious to see your thoughs.
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Best Regards,
Greg
Jaeger Custom (Heavy Bell)
Stomvi Titan (Bellflex Bell)
Conn 61B
CarolBrass Arturo Sandoval Pocket Trumpet
CarolBrass CFL-620R
Getzen CB 610

Remember...when He returns, the trumpet shall sound....

INTJ · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:04 am Post subject:

This has been very informative and interesting. The Carol is easier for me to play above the staff, and when I play High C up to A above, the notes are in tune. On the Bravura, I have to work harder to open up and pull them down to be in tune. Many notes above a High D resister 1/4 tone sharp on the Bravura. Now I can get an MP shank to reduce the gap even more, and I can get a round tuning slide for the Bravura.

I need to do this recording comparison again in six months. I am constantly improving, and I should be more used to the Carol by then.

What do I like? I like the Carol for lead and jazz band and the Bravura for everything else. The Bravura will definitely be my choice for playing in the pit this summer when we perform the Broadway version on West Side Story. Yes, it is going to be a challenge for me.......
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gbdeamer · Heavyweight Member Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 2307

INTJ · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:09 am Post subject:

The Capt's comments got me thinking, so I contacted Harrelson and got a reply from Jason. I have the #6 LP, which is similar to the pipe on the 8310z. The #1 leadpipe is similar to a Bach 25. This is all on the "Why Harrelson" website. Jason says the #1 pipe is the answer. It is more open in the upper register and is the most in tune pipe he has. I wish I would have had this breakthrough six months ago. When I first got the Bravura I needed more resistance upstairs. Now I don't.
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laurent · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:54 am Post subject:

INTJ · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:16 am Post subject:

It is tight, but it doesn't back up like an 8310z will.
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EdMann · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:35 am Post subject:

As a former 1 pipe, 6 bell Bravura owner, and someone who's played most ever Carol horn out there, I think I can speak from a chair of authority. I don't think your Bravura plays as well in tune, particularly in the lower register, than mine did. Your lower register seems sharper by a few noses than the Carol. My experience with shallower mpc's tells me to watch out for that in general, but it showed up for me listening to you on the Bravura. Just sounded like a struggle to be in tune, so a different pipe like the ubiquitous 25 (his 1) may make the diff.

The Carol sounds great, and from my POV, sounds like a match. I'm not sure of the build quality, but the sound and general intonation on those horns are great, one after the other. I'd grab one but I'm married to my Olds Super... witness the wedding, um, tone ring...

good luck in your search!

ed

INTJ · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject:

As it turns out, I will be sending my Bravura in for a #1 Leadpipe, probably this week. When I get it back I'll record and compare yet again.

Would you guys like me to start a new thread then or just bring this one back up? The comparison between the old and new leadpipe should be interesting.
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mbradd · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject:

Keep it on this thread. It'll be a nice to hear the differences in the horns/leadpipes all in one place.
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Retlaw · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject:

Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792

Wow, AFP!!!! That is a huge jump in endurance and range...... Normally I get one to increase and the other follows. When my endurance is down I can not play above the staff as well the longer I play. When my endurance is higher I seem to be able to play above the staff with more control and with more range. I do not know if this is how it works for everyone since I have little experience teaching other's.

So way to go!

Now I want to ask what if anything you did different. Normally we do not get a new result unless we change what we have always done. So what did you change if anything? I do not mean gear wise either because you do not normally associate those huge leaps to gear it is normally from some change in routine in the practice sessions. So I would love to hear what you did differently!
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Michael Drapp · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject:

Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792

In all fairness to CarolBrass you would need to try their Legend to get a fairer comparison or one of their heavy 72 bell. It still does not have a bell as heavy as Jasons "Yes I have one on hand and not from his ebay sale either!" and the bracing, leadpipe and main slide are not as heavy but it is closer. My point is a conventionally braced light weight gold brass bell trumpet is not going to have as much core and depth to the sound as a heavy braced, heavy leadpipe, heavy main slide, heavy gold brass bell trumpet will. It would be like trying to compare a Destino or Callet to a Taylor Chicago Standard or Getzen 3001 etc.......

Sure the Harrelson 3 bell and the Carol Brass Large bell are both based off Bach 72 bells and both are gold brass but that is where any likeness ends. One is mass produced the other is hand built. So just saying it is not a completely apple to apple comparison.

I think both horns sound fantastic and each has a different sweet spot where they are best suited. I bet if we locked afp in a room with Ken Larson and both horns and did not let either out until each horn had been tweaked fro afp both horns would radically perform better then they do currently and most of the issues or artifacts we are hearing would be reduced or eliminated to a large degree.
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laurent · Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:15 am Post subject:

I'm not a fan of bright sounding trumpets, I've always been after a broad dark sound - sometimes with a lot of core, sometimes very round, sometimes more fluffy.

But for my pleasure the sound must be really clean as well and with clear articulations: that's why in this case, although its sound isn't as dark and thick as the Bravura, I prefer the Carol hands down.

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Retlaw · Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:59 am Post subject:

laurent · Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:07 am Post subject:

Retlaw · Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:19 am Post subject: