Why is Harry James often not spoken of?

spitvalve · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:59 am Post subject:

To quote Dominic Spera, who played some Harry James recordings for us at a jazz clinic years ago, "Harry James was the Doc Severinsen of the '40s."
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king leopardi · Veteran Member Joined: 24 Jan 2009 Posts: 278

TrpPro · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:28 am Post subject:

BedfordTrumpeter · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:44 am Post subject:

I recently read a bio of Harry James called Trumpet Blues, which I highly recommend. It can be dry at times; many chapters consist of overly-detailed catalogs of gigs played and recordings made. But there are plenty of fascinating anecdotes as well. Frank Sinatra got his big break with Harry James' orchestra, and James was genuinely revered by other players for his technical skill and improvisation.

Things seemed to go off the rails for jazz purists when James began adding strings to his arrangements. It was perceived as a commercial move (heaven forbid) and he was frequently criticized for being too schmaltzy and saccharine. The reaction to James adding strings was a little like Dylan "going electric". Some folks never got over it, especially jazz critics who naturally evolved into jazz historians.

Louis Armstrong is in a category by himself as a contributor to jazz. But I agree with the book's thesis, that Harry James is unfairly overlooked when people tick off lists of jazz giants.
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Crazy Finn · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:44 am Post subject:

mcgovnor · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: Harry

Harry could blow some..u would be surprised. But he had a career based upon a style, and his looks and personality. He didn't let his bop side show, but he was well aware of the language..and far more than many today. In the early years, he was a monstrous brass player. I was never a fan, but truth is truth. Harry was way up on the totem pole. Like Buddy Rich in one way, a stylist and a personality. But Harry was well versed and could read, and could play great lead as well, with some heavy legit training.

Tony Scodwell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1969

In the listing of trend setting trumpet greats, of course Louis is first. I mean, the guy INVENTED jazz as we know it. And did he scare the hell out of the other trumpet players when he hit the scene? NOBODY was playing like him at the time. He was swingin' years before anybody else and was on the scene as a major force a good ten years before Harry. Harry indeed loved Louis and Louis would always come by to pay his respects to Harry when the bands worked near each other. I know Harry drew from Louis as Doc did from Harry years later. Harry had a natural way of playing similar to Louis, in that they played from the heart with such natural talent. Harry came out of a circus background and had a very strict father/teacher who demanded that the technical side of the instrument was fully developed. Rest assured Harry did not abandon his musical side in favor of the technical side. The fact that he could play such amazing things set him apart from guys like Bunny Berigan and not unlike Chris Botti, saw a commercial side of the business he enjoyed. At his peak he earned more than any other big bandleader and was a huge star, actually bigger than Betty Grable who was the leading star in movies at the time. Harry had a drawback which kept him from being a bigger movie star and that was a somewhat squeaky voice quality. Of course he was tied to the big band era and in spite of that going away, he kept his band alive until he died. Musically he changed the style of the band over the years and when I was with him, the book was mostly Ernie Wilkins and Thad Jones [yes, THAT Thad Jones]. A little secret not too many people know is that Harry listened to Clifford Brown a lot. I'm sure many won't believe me when I say that I've heard Harry play very much like Miles, and when asked one night why he didn't play that way all the time his response was..."because I'm Harry James". And believe me it was not a bragging comment.
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Nicholas1090 · Regular Member Joined: 02 Aug 2011 Posts: 45

"Because I'm Harry James." That's great! He did seem to have a confident and laid back style about him. Does anyone know what he was like talking to in conversation? That is interesting to me.

pfeifela · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject:

Harry:

#1 - tone
#4 - technical facility

........because I know somebody is going to do a poll.

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rockford · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject:

According to numerous sources, Harry James and Louis Armstrong were friends and admired each other musically and personally. Harry James and Doc share that studio sound that's popular in the entertainment business. Lots of vibrato and excitement. I imagine both of them can/could play just about anything but their legacy is in entertainment. Louis did a lot of entertaining too but he has the additional legacy of defining the early stages of jazz trumpet. I image we all have a little of each of them in our playing.
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mcgovnor · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:50 pm Post subject: I'm

Tony, I'm glad you added that side of Harry, the Miles and Clifford appreciation and ability to step into their shoes for a bit. I heard Harry play some blues in a bop style one night, and it amazed me. I thought it was a section guy..

As you said, he KNEW who he was, and he was true to that, and that's a wise thing. He was old school, like Buddy Rich, Lionel Hampton, Sammy Davis Junior and other men with immense talent and smarts, who walked the show business line with a certain amount of grace and dignity. If you worked with them, you would learn, they were deep water..much deeper than most would ever imagine.. And just for the record, although not a great fan..I always enjoyed most Bix and Bunny more than most Louie. But very early Louie is something else.

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6210

Are there any Harry James recordings with him playing outside of the "Harry James" model?

MikeyMike · Heavyweight Member Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 1680

A.N.A.Mendez · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Harry James

A.N.A.Mendez · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject:

Tony Scodwell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1969

There are a few live recordings of Harry James on which he does indeed step out of the H.J. mold. I do believe some YouTube videos are out there of his band in Japan in 1964 where he plays straight ahead jazz on some Thad Jones arrangements of Cherokee and Flyin' Home. The best example is the 1965 Monterey Jazz Festival which was billed as "The Trumpet Greats". We followed Louis, Clark Terry, Diz and then Miles and the set was amazing. Both Harry and Buddy were WAY up for the set and Wally Heider recorded it but to my knowledge no commercial recordings are available. Some private copies have surfaced and I was almost the producer for the official CD release [which never happened] after getting the OK from Buddy's estate, Jon Hendricks and the James estate. Speaking of Jon Hendicks, he and Harry scatted "Flyin' Home and maybe that would answer the question if Harry could sing or not.
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns available in the US only from Washington Music Center, call Lee Walkowich at 301.946.8808 or now in Europe at Musik-Bertram, Freiburg, Germany.

Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1894

There is an album called Things Aint What they Used To Be, on the Four Star label that has some tunes in the bop style. A very hard driving CD. Not the kind of Harry James you are probably used to listening to. It seems to be one of these labels that you might find in the Wal Mart discount bin. It doesn't have much info on the inside, but it does list the personel, but not the years recorded.

kehaulani · Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject:

Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1894

That tune "Cottontale" is on the album, and it is swing. But there are other tunes that are in a bop style.

Tony Scodwell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1969

I rest my case.
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns available in the US only from Washington Music Center, call Lee Walkowich at 301.946.8808 or now in Europe at Musik-Bertram, Freiburg, Germany.