Overcoming Endurance Issues?

[HERMOKIWI]

[chuck in ny]

sounds like a technique thing. you have been playing a long time and should have gotten progressively stronger. the fundamental way you blow the trumpet, configuring the lip set and so forth, this has to be done in the right way for you. there are people here who specialize in this and a lesson with a top person could open your eyes.

[dstdenis]

Hi Sam. I don't have any specific suggestions--I'm sure you've heard it all from the teachers you mentioned. I do empathize, though.

I haven't been able to figure out why I can play marches in wind band without too much trouble but struggle to get through a few choruses of improvising in jazz band. The marches are just as strenuous as the solos I'm noodling through in jazz band, maybe moreso, but I get tired faster while improvising. I know it's something about efficiency and mindset, but knowing it and fixing it are two different things.

So I'm right there with you, and I'm reading the responses here of others who've been through this and figured out a successful approach with interest.

By the way, I noticed that the Monster Oils guys have posted a teaser interview with Jim Pandolfi and will release the full interview on Feb 1. This grabbed my attention, because I've read a quote from David Krauss of the Met Opera orchestra, who said he never would have made it as a pro if he hadn't studied with Pandolfi, whose approach to playing helped him find the range and endurance he needed. In the teaser, Pandolfi said something about how a lot of the conventional wisdom is wrong ("if you blow, you suck!" -- what a great line!). Just passing it along in case you might be interested.
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[BBB1976]

Hi there!
Endurance is just putting in sensible practice time and building up. Practice your classical etudes e.g. Arban, Charlier, Saint jacome etc......
With the Arban Characteristic studies try playing through one of them. Then, REST 5 minutes. Then play through another etc......this really does workout the endurance!
The Charlier etudes are lovely and will build up melodic stamina as well for your quartet/quintet playing as a preparation. The saint jacome grand artistic studies are VERY demanding for endurance as they are 2 pages long! However these are especially good as a workout. After playing one through REST longer then played! This gives the muscles a chance to build and re group! Different things work for different players so listen to your chops and body! Honestly, these suggested workouts have helped me and passed on to me by some very fine players. Hope this helps and gives you some ideas.
Happy blowing and best of luck to you.

[tptguy]

OP, Your experience sounds exactly like mine. I worked exhaustively with Claude Gordon and Don Reinhardt through my Masters in Performance, but things only got worse. I then discovered Jerome Callet and he was a tremendous help. Jerome is in NYC so contact him for a modern approach that directly addresses lip, jaw, and tongue issues. Also take some lessons with Mac Gollehon. He's likely the strongest, most powerful player in NYC (or anywhere). He surely has the most endurance. And he's a real student of the chops. Best wishes!

[Turkle]

[furcifer]

I'm finding that a lot of the limitations of a given embouchure is related to leverage. If you do a reasonable amount of playing, then range and endurance will be commensurate, UNLESS your particular muscle construction and movement in relation to everything else, to include mouthpiece rim placement and diameter, is already limited by where the "fulcrum" of that movement is.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not OK with just playing great in the staff. I WILL demand more of my chops, but my brain also has to figure out how to best help the chops for the amount and type of playing I do. A LOT of times it does mean "practice more", but maybe it also means "practice better", and yet even before that, it means figure out what "better" is:

Where is the vibrating surface on the lips? Is it further back, in the middle or out near the edge of the pink?
What do you do to raise the frequency? Are you "rolling in", or using more pressure, or zipping in from the corners or just "saying 'M'" and clamping down harder or allowing the lips to "unfurl" into more of a pucker, etc.?

There are no wrong answers, but there is a vast difference between what *can* only work well up to a point of failure, and what *might* work to offer an increased range and/or endurance that is all but unlimited.

I've said this elsewhere, but it's clear that A LOT of guys never get much above high C, even after 20+ years of playing. MOST never increase their range significantly beyond whatever they had after 5 years of playing - whether it's a significant range or not. SOME, like Wayne Bergeron, had a Double C when they were 12. So, what does he do naturally that so many others never figure out?

Leverage. Wayne had it from the beginning. It takes chop strength to resist the air, sure, but he's not super-human, and he gets the same 24hrs in the day that we all get. He can't clip pencils in half with just his lips. (or can he? LOL) Where *reasonable* force is applied, the ability to overcome or withstand the opposing force will be harder or easier because of where the "fulcrum" is, i.e., where your lips start from and how much range of motion there is before you run out (range), or whether it's just not a naturally-supported "set" to begin with. How long can you hold a gallon of milk at arm's length vs. holding it next to your chest? Are you playing with a "natural" embouchure that is effectively already at "arm's length" to begin with?

Now, all those answers might eventually translate to a smaller mouthpiece, or a different set-point for the rim, or a change in aperture, or a change in where the vibrating surface is, or any number of combinations, but this is all just to help you think about what's really happening to change or hold pitch inside your mouthpiece, because whatever else you ever make happen will eventually have to happen in there.

Good luck! I've been struggling with these same things for years but these concepts are now bringing me some success. Along the way in the last 2 years, I've picked up the Warburton PETE, Lynn Nicholson's XPiece/MF Protocol, Bob Odneal's Casual Double C method and I recently switched to a smaller Marcinkiewicz E14 Bobby Shew 1 for lead work in my group. I'm glad to say that using these concepts to make these decisions has helped ensure that it's ALL helping, and feels great!

You might not think about it much now at your age, but today, it's extremely important to my mental health to realize that I'm 39 years down the road and still able to make progress towards some really exciting playing goals that are NOT out of reach!
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[CalvinPrice]

I understand exactly what you are frustrated with; I think we all share your experience in some way or another.

I know a lot of people buy into the Caruso Method and I'm sure it has helped them. I prefer Claude Gordon "Systematic Approach to Daily Practice" as a way of building endurance and range. The important thing is to follow Mr. Gordon's written directions. When I've returned from vacations, 2 days of the 1st lesson in his book and "I'm baaack".

Hope this helps.
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[McVouty]

I sympathise with you - I think most trumpet players have been or are still where you are to one degree or another. As others have mentioned some lip/teeth/jaw combinations more more naturally suited to trumpet playing than others. If you're far off the optimum it can be frustrating but with diligent practice you can still build the correct muscles to give you better endurance and range.

Here are a few factors that will limit your endurance for sure.

1) Too much mouthpiece pressure.

Solution - learn to play with more lip pucker and/or air pockets between teeth and lip. Maggio and Gordon pedals are the building blocks for doing this. BE has some interesting exercises too. Remember you build from the lower register - keeping the nice relaxed feeling as you ascend.

2) Too little air support for any given note - often leading to 1) above.

Solution - long tones, hold note till empty, loud, soft, crescendo decrescendo. If you prefer to keep moving use the Clarke drills all in one breath as directed. Never play higher than you are comfortable - this might be quite a bit lower than your highest note, but you are working on breath support and not lip strength.

3) Too much playing/isometric exercises causing chronic muscle fatigue - often leading to 1) again!

Solution - REST more often!!!!!

4) Insufficient embouchure strength - leading to 1) above when the muscles tire out.

Solution - Caruso is a quite a good way to build up the support muscles, as are exercises like the 20 minute G. You can also work on this with isometrics such as the pencil exercise, PETE, or Larry Mergilianos hermetic seal exercise. Be careful not to overdo these exercises though - to quote Clarke, a few drops of medicine can cure but a whole teaspoon can kill.

As you can see from above, crushing the lips with the mouthpiece is the number one endurance killer - but you will need to work on other aspects of your technique in order to reduce this, as well as consciously trying to back-off where you can.

Hope that helps!

Cheers

Carl

[cheiden]

A practice routine that is overzealous can train your chops to fail in a short period of time. Make sure that your daily routine doesn't overemphasize strenuous exercises.

This continues to be something I struggle with. Since I don't practice for hours every day I always seem to be in a hurry to play the hard stuff. Thirty minutes later I'm toast. When I keep my routine balanced I finish my routine feeling stronger.
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[jengstrom]

[cheiden]

[John Mohan]