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rafterman
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2002
Posts: 616
Location: Upstate NY
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 Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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The place had become a black hole. I like the idea of a place for R&P banter, but things stopped happening there months ago. It had become repetitious. It sounded like "Watermellon Man" improvs based on call and response: liberal/conservative, creation/evolution, kill the muslems/some of my best friends are....
I like the idea of R&P, but it stopped being fun or interesting.
I don't mean that as a put down to the posters. It just seemed that the jam got very tired, and the regulars couldn't back off and let new things happen or create something else. |
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James B. Quick
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 2067
Location: La Crosse, WI
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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jpellett: | Quote: | | At least to have some credibility in R/P you have to have some working knowledge of the outside world and [be] able to construct coherent, logical thoughts |
Oh Boy... When I played in rock bands, I saw that it was very much easier to whip a crowd up into a mob by playing music with negative and sleazy lyrics than by playing something idealistic or pleasant. Appealing to the lowest common denominator and base emotions has very little, if anything, to do with knowledge, credibility, or logic....
jbqd
p.s. I predict that the demise of this thread is imminent.... |
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MilesD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1657
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Lots of different ideas on R/P thats for sure. It just occured to me that maybe this will give the Mods a better idea on whether or not to re-instate R/P 
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I don't care if a dude is green with pink breath, as long as he can swing. Miles Davis
Trumpet: Red Maestro and Yamaha
Mouthpiece: Holton Heim
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ARB
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 3589
Location: Hotlanta - Commonly known as Atlanta Ga
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| rafterman wrote: | The place had become a black hole. I like the idea of a place for R&P banter, but things stopped happening there months ago. It had become repetitious. It sounded like "Watermellon Man" improvs based on call and response: liberal/conservative, creation/evolution, kill the muslems/some of my best friends are....
I like the idea of R&P, but it stopped being fun or interesting.
I don't mean that as a put down to the posters. It just seemed that the jam got very tired, and the regulars couldn't back off and let new things happen or create something else. |
rafterman I think you hit the nail on the head. The repetitious postings and responses by some just got old for me so I would only visit from time-to-time.
R/P could be a great place to exchange ideas about important issues of our time (many could even learn a few things from the opposing sides) I just don't think the current pattern of mud slinging will ever change and it just destroys the potential benefits of the forum.
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Allen - 'Chops-in-Hotlanta'
00 Schilke S22
77 LA Benge 5X
63 Burbank Benge C
"It's what we think we know that keeps us from knowing" |
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Tristan the man 2000
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 1283
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: |
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I learned that there are alot of misinformed die-hards out there fighting for causes they don't quite understand.
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Kickin' brass and takin' names. |
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Ohanapecosh
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 2133
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: |
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ralphnz wrote: | Quote: | | Why does the INTERNET need a forum for trumpet players to discuss religion and politics? |
It was a common interest among certain trumpet players, nothing more. There are a lot of threads in R&P that I ignored. The banter happened because of familiarity and seemed abrasive to the outsiders (those that didn't post frequently). When I saw a LeeC post I knew what to expect and it wasn't shocking nor did I take offense, it was LeeC being LeeC. Yet, someone just lurking R&P might not understand that the guys hanging out in R&P would all gladly buy one another a beer and never hold anything against something said about them in R&P. It was the lurkers that got hurt many times.
R&P's biggest problem was the subject of Religion or Politics tend to be lightening rods, so they'll attract that sort of personality. The faint of heart or someone who easily gets their feelings hurt shouldn't be there. In fact, the warning should have been, WARNING YOUR IDEAS MAY BE NAIVE AND SOMEONE IS ABOUT STOMP ON THEM! POST WITH FORE THOUGHT!
I had a bigger problem with the Lounge and the direction it was taking. It became really creepy watching older guys follow high school girls around threads like dogs in heat. Some comments in the lounge were much more inappropriate than someone saying "you're a liberal, you can't help being stupid."
So my question is along the line of Ralph's, why does a trumpet site need a place that allows "old guys" to stalk young girls and post innuendo's to them? One gets a wink and a nod from the Mods and the other gets shut down... hmmmm? It seems to me, R&P isn't that bad a place after all... it's all a matter of perspective, isn't it?
With that said, R&P has gone to the dogs in the last few month and I quit posting because of it. If it continued down it's current path, it's not worth reopening. |
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ARB
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 3589
Location: Hotlanta - Commonly known as Atlanta Ga
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| Ohanapecosh wrote: | | I had a bigger problem with the Lounge and the direction it was taking. It became really creepy watching older guys follow high school girls around threads like dogs in heat. Some comments in the lounge were much more inappropriate than someone saying "you're a liberal, you can't help being stupid." |
Ohanapecosh, I remember Ray saying something similar to this some time ago about the Lounge and it really caught me off guard; I really don't post enough or read much in the Lounge to have noticed this. When he first mentioned it the thought of someone doing something like that just made me sick to my stomach.
If this is true I think the mods need to focus more on what goes on in the Lounge; at least you know the R/P forum is full of adults that only get their feeling hurts.
_________________
Allen - 'Chops-in-Hotlanta'
00 Schilke S22
77 LA Benge 5X
63 Burbank Benge C
"It's what we think we know that keeps us from knowing" |
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tom turner
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 6648
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:58 am Post subject: |
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I have a lot more "problems" with THIS forum, the "Lounge," than with the R/P forum.
Frankly, most of us who frequented and regularly posted in the R/P forum knew all the "cast of characters" and had a lot of fun poking and ribbing each other.
The argument about everything become repetitive? Jeeeez . . . have you checked the Horns forum lately, or the Mouthpiece forum . . . etc.?
HOW MANY TIMES CAN THE SAME LAME QUESTIONS BE ASKED IN NEW THREADS EVERY SINGLE MONTH . . . simply because someone was too lazy to do a "Search?"
How many posts on 3C mouthpieces, bore sizes, "what bell Bach is best for me," "What's the best jazz trumpet under $____," "What mic is best," "How can I hit a High C,"etc.
If repetition is a problem, the mods could create "stickies" to answer the "Top Ten Lame Questions" in each forum! I've suggested this before to them to help save that precious "bandwidth." NAWWWW, THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM . . . FOR PEOPLE WANT TO INTERACT WITH FOLKS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN CERTAIN THINGS.
If keeping things focused on serious trumpet matters was the problem, the mods could eliminate the "Lounge" area. It has some really stupid, childish stuff in it, like this new thread, that don't relate to playing the trumpet better:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56767
NAWWWW, THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM . . . FOR PEOPLE WANT TO INTERACT WITH FOLKS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN CERTAIN THINGS.
In the Lounge, that means mainly the old TPO crowd . . . the high schoolers doing the marching band thing.
It also attracted older "predators" as well as lonely females (young and old). I know one prominent member of this board (an adult), who started a long-running affair with a married woman in the Lounge forum. Who knows how many guys succeeded in hitting on the underage girls.
THIS FORUM MAKES ME WANT TO PUKE! . . . yet it is allowed to drone on and on and rise to occupy a huge percentage of total TH posts today!
DOES MY POST OFFEND YOU?
Good! Lively, spirited debate is a WONDERFUL thing!!! We can all learn from each other if we will debate.
Then again . . . censorship SUCKS!
T. |
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trumpetmike
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 11315
Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Tom - thanks for reminding me why the R/P should remain shut.
You talk of repetitive threads, yet R/P was FULL of them "Bush is great" "Bush is a moron" "USA rules!" etc.
Debate was never the point of the majority of posters in R/P - the main reason appeared to be:
"I am right, anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot and I am allowed to insult them."
If the R/P nuts had managed to keep it civilised, maybe it would have stayed open - as they tended to resorted to name calling - I am happy it is shut down. |
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Ohanapecosh
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 2133
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If the R/P nuts had managed to keep it civilised |
Funny, it always seems the rules are different for the Lounge... or does the Lounge allow for name calling too? |
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trumq
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 335
Location: san francisco
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: |
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[quote="trumpetmike"] USA rules!
Trumpetmike-
Good point. If only the rest of our international members could come to terms with this important fact.
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paul
Henri Selmer 80J
'63 Olds Studio
'55 King Liberty
King altonium
'47 Conn 80A |
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MilesD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1657
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Ohanapecosh wrote: | | Quote: | | If the R/P nuts had managed to keep it civilised |
Funny, it always seems the rules are different for the Lounge... or does the Lounge allow for name calling too? |
The point here is that there will be jerks anywhere becasuse the web is a reflection of society, and unfortunately society has lots of them, so the lounge is not exempt.
The lounge and R/P cant be compared. R/P is full of nuts that are so entrenched in thier views, that if you waver then you are sure to be blasted. Sorry but thats just not right  The only reason that I went in to R/P is because it was a great place to learn things, and I love to learn. Other then that I wouldnt really care if R/P dissapeared.
The lounge however is a fun more relaxed place where you can have fun and let your hair down. I think the most relaxed fun place on TH is the lounge
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I don't care if a dude is green with pink breath, as long as he can swing. Miles Davis
Trumpet: Red Maestro and Yamaha
Mouthpiece: Holton Heim
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trumpetmike
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 11315
Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Ohanapecosh wrote: | | Quote: | | If the R/P nuts had managed to keep it civilised |
Funny, it always seems the rules are different for the Lounge... or does the Lounge allow for name calling too? |
Just making you R/P guys feel at home  |
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MilesD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1657
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpetmike wrote: | | Ohanapecosh wrote: | | Quote: | | If the R/P nuts had managed to keep it civilised |
Funny, it always seems the rules are different for the Lounge... or does the Lounge allow for name calling too? |
Just making you R/P guys feel at home |
_________________
I don't care if a dude is green with pink breath, as long as he can swing. Miles Davis
Trumpet: Red Maestro and Yamaha
Mouthpiece: Holton Heim
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12705
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Sorting through the chaff here, it is my opinion that repetition, polarized views, and heated exchanges are not the problem. They can be found on most of the forums here, granted in a smaller percentage.
For me, the issue is the violation of the usage agreement. There were many instances where attacks on persons stepped over the line, one thread about LeeC comes to my mind.
The bottom line is that Todd has clearly outlined the rules and he gets to make the call. I think periodic timeouts to let things coold down are a good idea.
Closing the forum would not be the end of the world for me either. |
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mafields627
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001
Posts: 3784
Location: AL
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have much time to post anymore since I'm working now (and wonder how many of you manage to work and get so many posts, but I digress), but I am glad R/P is gone.
I have never felt that the Lounge took anything away from the trumpet content of the board; however, there are posters in R/P who used to contribute quality trumpet related content that ceased or dramatically reduced what they were doing.
Maybe the trumpet content of TH has run its course...no more talks about Callet's methods, or other pedagogues, or new horns, or mouthpieces, or analyzing a particular piece of music. If it has, though, at least let it go into cyberspace history without the stigma of a bunch of angry-at-everything right wingers and whiny-baby Bush-hating liberal responders.
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--Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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Ohanapecosh
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 2133
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpetmike wrote: | | Ohanapecosh wrote: | | Quote: | | If the R/P nuts had managed to keep it civilised |
Funny, it always seems the rules are different for the Lounge... or does the Lounge allow for name calling too? |
Just making you R/P guys feel at home |
LOL mike, thanks for thinking of us and when I get to England, I'll buy you a pint.
For all you young uns', there was a time that the lounge was a blast for all... long live B&B (you old timers will know who I'm talking about).
Miles, I am going to have to agree to disagree with your point that the two can't be compared. What is acceptable to you may be offensive to me. You are not offended by some of the things said in the Lounge that I am. I was equally offended by some things in R&P but so what? The biggest difference in my judgment is that when people are offended in R&P things just vanish. While things said in the Lounge don't get reported because the people who peruse those threads don't find them offensive (even though they are to others) they still breach the rules set down by Todd.
Every time R&P gets shut down (which I do think is justified by Todd and the Mods) many posters berate that particular forum while not taking note of equal breaches, in content (but not necessarily volume )compared to R&P, on the rest of TH. My point is that some things get a slide that shouldn't. As entertaining as most post are, there is a fair amount of rule violations but the younger people find "shock" and innuendo acceptable, they don't see that as a clear rule violation like they see when things get rancorous in R&P. Shutting down R&P will not keep the "nuts" from posting bad things elsewhere on TH or create an environment where they will continue to add to the trumpet content of TH. R&P exist for the same reasons the Lounge exist, for people with common interest to hang out which includes R&P and to some, their hormones. |
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trickg
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5706
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I feel just fine with it being locked down - it's a non-productive waste of bandwidth in my opinion, even if I am suckered into participating from time to time. 
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6437
Location: AVL|NC|USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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I find this thread offensive.
Moderators, please pull this thread.
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Puttin’ On The Ritz |
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bilboinsa
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Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 3378
Location: San Antonio, TX
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