Theory about too shallow of a mouthpiece

[LeeC]

[garrett901]

[garrett901]

[J-Walk]

[plankowner110]

[butxifxnot]

[John Mock]

[WildCat]

Since everybody's throwing their opinions into this...

Results are what matter

If someone can do the job on a huge mouthpiece, that's fine. I couldn't. At the same time, a lot of people don't really have a grasp the reality of the playing they're doing. This could mean that they either pass their playing as a higher standard even though it's not, or believe that they're doing something harder than they really are. If you're able to do a commercial-type gig on a big mouthpiece, ask yourself 3 things.. 1) How hard was the gig, really? 2) How good of a job did I do in comparison with several different standards of playing? 3) How much am I lying to myself.

...The same goes for people playing orchestral literature on especially small mouthpieces. I took a sub audition for an orchestra entirely on Bb, and used the mouthpiece I'd been playing for all my chop-intensive gigs for the months before. I thought I would've done fine, but reality set in. I sounded bad.

Perception is reality

If you're happy with it, and the people around you are too, then it's right. No questions asked. Also, if you're getting the appropriate results, but the people around you are unhappy with it, think about why they'd take quarrel. You may be with a group of idiots. Then again, you might still be lying to yourself. There are a lot of things that can be true.
_________________
Vince K.

[cheiden]

I know as many people how are probably on too big a mouthpiece as I do people who are on too small a mouthpiece. Both groups produce a sound that I perceive as less than ideal. The too-big group is usually spending too much time trying to get a bigger sound. The too-small group is usually spending too much time trying to improve how high they can play.

I also know a good number of players who play and sound fine. Those people play all sorts of equipment, big and small and lot's in the middle, but I hardly care because it's working for them just fine. I strive to be in this group.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[Mr. Benge]

Ok, so first off, I didn't say I wasn't getting swelling in my original mouthpiece, which was a Marcienkewicz 1 (Huge!). I honestly don't know if I was or not, I just knew I wasn't lasting as long as I needed to and was told I needed something more efficient. As a sidenote until that point I'd been playing 1-2 nights a week but was laid off so I started playing 4 nights a week. Enter the Warburton 4M w. a Q backbore. I played on this for a few months and realized something just wasn't right, I still was pooting out and now I couldn't even think about practicing on the side due to lips just feeling stiff and swollen. A few months later I did a trial of the Wedge and none of them seemed to beat the 4M as far as making upper register easier, but I did really like the the way one of the backbores Dave sent played, it was tight, a 4. But it seemed like producing notes took less effort. That all went down around March. So, now I'm playing on that mouthpiece/backbore on a Bach Strad 43. Don't get me wrong, I play well and I "make it" through the gigs buy by the last 2 sets I'm not playing anywhere near the level I want to. Here, I may regret this but just recently recorded some stuff and you can check it out to see how I play and the sound I'm going for: http://www.myspace.com/rvtrumpet I don't care if I can't ever hit DHC, honestly, if I could hit G's when I wanted through a 4 hour gig that would be ALL I need to express myself musically the way I want. It's really frustrating, I was the best in jr. high and high school, always my section leader by a mile, always in the top 3 chairs at All Region, etc, etc. Never had problems w. my playing until I moved down to LA and started trying to go out and play 4 hours a night......so frustrating.....

[Trptguy]

the mouthpiece isn't the issue. Find a good reputable teacher. Then practice on a daily basis. You are going about it wrong. Fix yourself then worry about the equipment.
_________________
Seelan Manickam
Trumpet Faculty, Keene State College
Director, Keene State Orchestra
www.balabrass.org
XO Artist

[EdMann]

Ryan,
Dig your sound, and the style choices you're making, but if I may, you actually sound spread. It's a broad, big sound but I can tell that there's no way you can last doing that 4 hours a night. Mpc choice will make no difference as it made little difference for me when I played like this. As the above poster said, and if I can urge you to work with a local pro and get things really focused, you'll end like me, better and gigless!

ed

[Mr. Benge]

Hey Ed,

Thanks, I appreciate it! Yeah I have been thinking for a while now that I need to get a good teacher. My plan is to maybe take some lessons w. Pops to see if I can learn how to play a bit more efficently as well as find someone locally to study with. Finances have prevented that in the past year or so but that is getting better and I should be able to plunk down some cash this spring.

On a sidenote, I just picked up my LA Benge 3 from repair, hadn't played it in 9 years. When I got home and took it out it played fantastic! The tone was much different than the Bach and it seems much easier to play, including my upper range.

So what does one do to fix a spread sound?

Ryan

[shofarguy]

[tom turner]

Frankly, everyone is right . . . based on what they've discovered so far in their lifelong "walk" of playing the trumpet, at least those "lifers" who are accomplished players.

Yep, trumpetwinds is dead on. However, let's see what he discovers in the next three or four decades.

My range a solid, rich Double E (and this rises to the G above that when I woodshed a lot). That being said, it matters not whether I'm playing my HUGE and DEEP custom-made Warburton 2DD (like a Bach 1A in size) or my Warburton 8 series mouthpieces. I've got 'em all in the #8 size, with the 8M being my favorite generally for commercial work. BTW, the #8 rim, at .620 is about the same as what Clifford Brown used, the tiny Bach 17.

I also have the same range on my Bach 6 sized fluglehorn mouthpiece. Ditto on my .650 sized 1911 Boston "cookie-cutter" mouthpiece that has an obscenely huge V-shaped funnel and a huge throat.

No difference. Each is a tool, and I like to grab the right tool for the job.

Oh yeah . . . after over 45 years of performing, I use VERY little pressure . . . just enough for an air seal only. If I was still a "face masher" my opinions on what would work would collapse into a much smaller choice range.

BOTTOM LINE . . . learn to avoid pressure and you'll be able to play all night long on any sized mouthpiece you want! An additional benefit of not having the "expando-swell" lip problem? You can use a much shallower mouthpiece and STILL have more remaining cup volume than "Mr. Masher" and "Ms. Poke N. Hope" have when tired on their toilet bowls.

Here's a commercial gig where a photographer caught me playing my Wild Thing short cornet by simply resting the bell on my outstretched left thumb and pinky finger. I also was floating my right hand totally away from the horn too . . . no way to really apply pressure. I must have been playing some dubbas about then . . . an my Warburton BC (deep funnel) cornet top mouthpiece with a Warburton #10 backbore.



Reducing arm pressure on the chops changes EVERYTHING for a player! Several clinicians in the past would hang their trumpets on strings at clinics and "amaze" people who simply didn't understand this fact yet.

AGAIN . . . everyone is right . . . based on where they are in their progression. Thus the right answer for a person THIS year may be totally wrong in the future.

Hope this helps,

Tom

[EdMann]

[Mr. Benge]

Yeah, so I've pretty much known for a while now that I'm going to have to make some major changes to be able to play the way I want. I've been out playing like this for over a year and have seen minimal gains in endurance, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist. So I guess the first question is, what is the most effective way to go about strengthening the muscles that are necessary to play w. a lot less pressure?

[Trptguy]

[dbacon]

DB

[davewithabuescher]