Custom built C trumpet choices

[royjohn]

Hi All,

I am revisiting this thread because the custom C trumpet project is moving along . . . . I was able to get a Kanstul 72 copper bell and some Pilczuk leadpipes (one unmarked in copper, a copper C47 [maybe not a Pilczuk] and a yellow brass 41-59) at a very reasonable price from Tony Scodwell [thanks, Tony!]. After looking over a few valve blocks today I selected a 0.462" Getzen block instead of a used Bach block or an Olds 0.460" block. The Getzen block had valves with smaller "bumps" in the holes and I thought this could make the horn freer blowing than the Olds block. Both were pretty silky smooth. Bill Jones, the builder, is going to put the horn together so that I can try a few leadpipes and tuning slides. there will be a reversed slide on the first and third valves and a first valve saddle and a third valve adjustable ring and Amado water keys.

We are aiming for something rather free blowing and dark.

I can't decide whether to silver plate, gold plate or laquer this horn. I hate to hide the copper bell and (the possibly) copper leadpipe, but Bill's price for plating is ridiculously cheap [he says he can prep as he builds the horn and this saves labor and cost].

I'm interested in your thoughts . . . but, at this point, please don't tell me not to do this, as the decision is already made. I played a Bb Bill put together and gold plated today and an Eb lacquered horn and both were great. It is going to be interesting. Bill is going to try to put something together for me to try by Sept 15th, because I will probably have to have epigastric hernia surgery right after that and won't be able to play for a while. when I recover the C trumpet will be done and ready!
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[camel]

in general

laquer makes a horn more dark
silver makes a horn more bright
gold does not so much on the sound.

[PW-Factor]

Don't know where this thread ever ended up, but if you want the character of the copper, have you considered leaving it Raw? Patina can be very, very cool. If that's not your speed, I'd say silver, mainly for aesthetics' sake.
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Ska/Reggae - The Selectones
New Orleans Funk - The Big Lagniappe

Raw Brass HB2 - Hammond PW
Gen II ACB Doubler Flugel - Curry 5FL

[Cheesehead]

I play a C trumpet and this summer I found someone to convert a flugel to the key of C and I love it!

[veery715]

Even though plating is cheap, a lacquer finish will reveal the beauty of copper and today's finishes can be very thin and have little or no effect on sound. Since you are looking for a dark sound, lacquer, which is known for darkening when a difference CAN be detected, seems the way to go to me.

I have a silver-plated Conn 12B (coprion bell) and it seems a tad brighter than my raw one - but this could well be the result of finish hypnosis.
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veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.

[royjohn]

I just got back from Dr. Bill Jones' studio, where I tried out the new C trumpet. It has the Kanstul 72 copper bell, a Getzen 0.462" valve block, a somewhat rounded [Getzen?] tuning slide and Amado waterkeys. We tried two copper and one yellow brass leadpipe. This horn plays velvety dark, but not tubby and begins to light up over forte and get a little bright edge. All of the leadpipes work OK and the horn is strikingly in tune all over. I didn't even feel a need to trigger the low G. As far as I could tell, it slotted well right up to double C. I tried a set of heavy valve caps but liked the stock Getzens better for getting around the horn. I was stumped between the brass and one of the copper leadpipes, so Bill suggested taping them together and playing the otherwise-assembled horn with both for a few weeks before deciding and I readily agreed to that.

The blow on this horn is so open that Bill and I both agreed that, if we were blindfolded, it might be hard to tell it wasn't an open blowing Bb horn. Much different from the brighter, tighter Conn Harry Glantz model C I also own. Bill is going to see if some better aligned valves or other tweaks might help the Glantz. I could end up keeping both. The new C matches the tone color of my Holton 51LB, so I guess I will be all set until I get ready for a picc or some other form of insanity.

Dr. Bill Jones is very easy to work with and a fun person with whom to talk shop. He is also a very good trumpet player. He showed me a picc he'd built and then dashed off parts of the 3rd movement of the Brandenburg #2, not once, but several times. He said he wished he could take credit for the horn, but that the 72 bell and the Getzen valve block just mated to make a really fine horn. Of course, he did put it together and pick the right tuning slide. I am really excited and can't wait to get it and put it through some more extensive testing, but I think, at under $750, this trumpet is going to end up being a great deal and a great horn.

Now my only problem is going to be deciding between lacquer and gold plate. I considered going raw, but the copper tarnishes and fingermarks in a matter of hours, so it will have to be lacquered if it isn't plated. The Getzen block has some nice nickel accents which will be left either way. If you are looking for a horn modification or a C conversion, I can recommend Dr. Jones wholeheartedly. He is easy to work with, knowledgeable and gets done on time. If you have a horn to cut down to C, at about $500 delivered, his C conversion is a no-brainer if the horn is a good candidate. Given the success we have had with the copper bell, if I were you I would look for a Conn Collegiate with one . . . .
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[gringoloco]

Lacquer...and PICS!
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Laskey/Pinc C
Bach/Laskey Conversion C
Bach MV/Laskey-Pinc ML Bb
Bach NY M Bb
Bach/Melk Eb
Schilke P7-4
Schilke A2C cornet
King Silversonic Bb/A cornet
Melk PVAs
Stork Custom mouthpieces

[royjohn]

As soon as I get the horn for trial, I will post horn-porn pix of the naked horn with the piggybacked, slightly obscene leadpipes. I can only hope this does not cause any riots abroad, although it possibly could in Nuremberg. Until then, you can look at some mods at:www.trumpetdesignstudio.com.

This is Dr. Jones trumpet design website. Of course, when the leadpipe choice and the finish choice is made and Bill has had the chance to finish the horn, I'll post pix of the horn with its clothes on [lacquer or gold]. Right now I'm just dealing with a bad case of hornus interruptus, since I had to leave it with Dr. Jones to be put together with something besides black electrical tape.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[royjohn]

I forgot to mention that the copper 72 bell and the three Pilczuk leadpipes came from Tony Scodwell at a ridiculously low price. Thanks again, Tony, for helping to make a dream come true.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[royjohn]

Hello all,

I brought the C trumpet home for trial today. I am going to try to post some pictures. I tried to crop these, but I don't think it worked. The horn has a copper leadpipe on it, but I have another that I can fit onto it to try. So far, I can feel and hear very little difference between the pipes. The horn plays very much in tune. With the tuner, even with my poor technique, all the notes seem to be within about five cents of exact except that low G and F# seem to be sharp, as expected.

I am just getting used to the horn, but it is very free blowing and dark, as I noticed when I first tried it. Bill played it on a gig over the weekend and said it played great for him, too. I'll post some more when I have lived with it for a few days. The valve set is lacquered, but the bell and leadpipe and tuning slide are sill in raw brass and I'll have to decide on lacquer or gold plate. Bill suggested we could use rose gold for the bell and leadpipe and kind of retain the present color scheme to a point, if rose gold is available. I guess you can see that there is no front bell brace. There's no first valve trigger because one isn't needed, but we might put one on to match pitch to others.




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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .