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botahoratiu
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Location: Medias, Romania
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 Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | | Do you like anything about the Schilke better than the Conn? Anything??? |
Yes: the mechanics.
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HERMOKIWI
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| botahoratiu wrote: | | HERMOKIWI wrote: | | Do you like anything about the Schilke better than the Conn? Anything??? |
Yes: the mechanics. |
The mechanics would be the operation of the 1st and 3rd valve slides and the operation of the valves. The mechanics of holding the horn would be an additional consideration.
Just relating my own experience with my 1956 Connstellation 38B as compared to my Schilke B1, the 38B seems like a much larger horn to hold, the 38B 1st valve slide trigger is awkward compared to the 1st valve slide hook on the Schilke, the mechanics of operation of the 3rd valve slide on the 38B are about the same as the mechanics of operation of the 3rd valve slide on the Schilke, and the valves on the 38B require more effort and are not as smooth as the valves on the Schilke (the 38B valves have sort of a noticeable breaking point in terms of the effort required to depress them - I think the valves on my 1956 38B are different than the valves on your later model so this might not be an issue on your horn).
I think if you play only the 38B you'll quickly get used to the size of the horn and any adjustments in holding it (except to accommodate the 1st valve trigger) and you'll also quickly get used to the valves.
The thing I have the most difficulty with is the 1st valve trigger, it just seems awkward to me to operate. Holding the horn with my left thumb on the trigger also seems awkward. However this awkwardness is due to the fact that I'm not used to playing a horn with a 1st valve slide trigger. If you don't play a horn with a 1st valve slide trigger it takes some getting used to, there's a learning curve, but eventually it will seem natural. If you never adjust the 1st valve slide then you can bypass having your thumb on the trigger and can just place it against the 1st valve casing and, in that case, nothing about the trigger is awkward.
My point is that if the 38B was going to be the only horn you'd get to play for the rest of your life you'd get used to the mechanics fairly quickly and from that point on you'd think of those mechanics as "normal." So I think as you compare/evaluate the horns you should assume that anything that currently seems awkward about the mechanics of the 38B will quickly work its way out and seem "normal" after a short duration of playing the 38B exclusively.
I wouldn't decide based on mechanics. I'd decide only on the basis of the playing characteristics (sound, response, flexibility, intonation, blow, etc.).
Let us know how it goes.
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Just a comment on how subjective these things can be. I have absolutely no problem with the 1st valve trigger.
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Louise Finch
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Hi botahoratiu
Do you absolutely 100% have to get rid of one of them?
I've learned the hard way over the years, that if I've previously really liked a horn and it has served me well, that I shouldn't sell it.
I really like my Bach 184ML cornet, and it was my main cornet in a concert band and my previous brass band for many years. It doesn't blend that well in the section of Sovereigns in my current brass band, so I'm currently playing a Yamaha Xeno as my main cornet. My Bach 184ML stays in the wardrobe.
I'm hardly made of money and I don't have unlimited space, but after almost twenty years of playing this cornet day in and day out, it is worth more to me than simply its monetary value and I can spare the space in my wardrobe.
I suppose if you really have to get rid of one for financial reasons, I would get rid of the Schilke which is easily replaceable since it is a current model.
Take Care
Lou
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botahoratiu
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | Hi botahoratiu
Do you absolutely 100% have to get rid of one of them?
I've learned the hard way over the years, that if I've previously really liked a horn and it has served me well, that I shouldn't sell it.
I really like my Bach 184ML cornet, and it was my main cornet in a concert band and my previous brass band for many years. It doesn't blend that well in the section of Sovereigns in my current brass band, so I'm currently playing a Yamaha Xeno as my main cornet. My Bach 184ML stays in the wardrobe.
I'm hardly made of money and I don't have unlimited space, but after almost twenty years of playing this cornet day in and day out, it is worth more to me than simply its monetary value and I can spare the space in my wardrobe.
I suppose if you really have to get rid of one for financial reasons, I would get rid of the Schilke which is easily replaceable since it is a current model.
Take Care
Lou |
Unfortunately, yes, I have to sell one of them in 2 months.
I have had another 38B in the past and sold it and regretted since. But it seems to me just so hard to get used to the Conn grip and valves, which aren't so forgiving as the ones on the Schilke when using bad technique.
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Louise Finch
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| botahoratiu wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: | Hi botahoratiu
Do you absolutely 100% have to get rid of one of them?
I've learned the hard way over the years, that if I've previously really liked a horn and it has served me well, that I shouldn't sell it.
I really like my Bach 184ML cornet, and it was my main cornet in a concert band and my previous brass band for many years. It doesn't blend that well in the section of Sovereigns in my current brass band, so I'm currently playing a Yamaha Xeno as my main cornet. My Bach 184ML stays in the wardrobe.
I'm hardly made of money and I don't have unlimited space, but after almost twenty years of playing this cornet day in and day out, it is worth more to me than simply its monetary value and I can spare the space in my wardrobe.
I suppose if you really have to get rid of one for financial reasons, I would get rid of the Schilke which is easily replaceable since it is a current model.
Take Care
Lou |
Unfortunately, yes, I have to sell one of them in 2 months.
Hi
That is a shame.
I have had another 38B in the past and sold it and regretted since. But it seems to me just so hard to get used to the Conn grip and valves, which aren't so forgiving as the ones on the Schilke when using bad technique.
I just don't know how to advise you. It may be that there is another make/model out there, which is a better compromise of the two, and you won't feel that you are having to give up one thing to gain another. Is there anywhere local where you can go to try as many trumpets as you can, before you make any final decisions.
All the best
Lou
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Trumpets:
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Bach Strad 184ML
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botahoratiu
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:41 am Post subject: |
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No, Louise, there isn't. I live in Romania and here aren't any music stores around, especially those with brass pieces on stock for testing.
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Louise Finch
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| botahoratiu wrote: | | No, Louise, there isn't. I live in Romania and here aren't any music stores around, especially those with brass pieces on stock for testing. |
Hi botahoratiu
That is a real shame.
Take Care
Lou
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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botahoratiu
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Correct me if I am wrong ... could it be that the Schilke is more of a section horn than the Conn. The Conn seems e better solo/lead ? Not that the Schilke wouldn't be a great solo horn also, just the Conn has a much distinctive sound in a section, that eventually will stand out(if pushed a little).
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botahoratiu
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Hi again
Thank you all for the valuable information and inputs. I finally decided to stay with my old Schilke B1, so the Connstellation is for sale.
I am planning to go to holiday in June, so I have just a little bit over a month to sell it 
Thanks again!
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JazzFluegel
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:59 am Post subject: |
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My parents bought me a new 38B for HS in 1961; still have it; mint; I think Maynard, Chet, and some others were playing the Connstellation back in that day. I had for a couple years abandoned the 38B for the Yamaha Shew, but went back to it a year ago. I was still playing it in big band (I stick to fluegel & cornet in combos) until a few weeks ago when I inherited a 1980's B5. I debuted the B5 after having it only a few days at a gig last Sunday. Band mates, director, and most importantly director's wife who manages the band, were all like "wow!" Must admit now that it seems like my articulation and particularly range are better the B5 with both Marcinkiewicz & Warburton mouthpieces. Fairly sure the 38B will now be inherited by my grand niece. So, another vote for keeping both until you absolutely are sure of your choice; even then, only if you need the sweet moolah instead. 
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | botahoratiu wrote: | | What will you do with 2 B1s? |
Bomb Afghanistan? |
Perfect! 
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: |
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On the subject of projection:
I have experienced two separate aspects of projection, cut & carry.
Cut is usually associated with a narrow pattern of sound and a searing edge.
Carry is how well the core sound of the instrument travels independent of the projection pattern.
My Benge 5X had carry in all directions and could be heard at a distance much better than most other trumpets. My first Wild Thing trumpet was similar.
The Burbank CG I had on trial last year had cut and I assume projected well. The Kanstul 1410 and Holton MF301 I've sampled projected well in the narrow sense.
A certain Burbank era Benge 3X I played had almost zero feedback and I don't know if it projected well or not.
You need a 2nd set of ears and a large open space to really tell what's going on. Good feedback does not necessarily mean poor projection.
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trumpet.sanity
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:48 am Post subject: |
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I always get confused by the differences in the 36B and 38B and who played what.
But one of my favorite modern lead players, Brian Macdonald with the Note, plays on either a 36 or 38B and sounds and cuts as great as any lead trumpet sound I've ever heard.
Lots of guys obviously sound great and do a fantastic job on Schilke trumpets as well. So, I think one would do fine with either, and beyond personal likes and dislikes, both are winners. |
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Usedtobegood
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| trumpet.sanity wrote: |
But one of my favorite modern lead players, Brian Macdonald with the Note, plays on either a 36 or 38B and sounds and cuts as great as any lead trumpet sound I've ever heard. |
According to Russ Dixon's Trumpetplayersdirectory.com Brian says he plays on a 36B
http://www.trumpetplayersdirectory.com/trumpetplayerbrianmacdonald.html |
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trumpet.sanity
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Usedtobegood wrote: | | trumpet.sanity wrote: |
But one of my favorite modern lead players, Brian Macdonald with the Note, plays on either a 36 or 38B and sounds and cuts as great as any lead trumpet sound I've ever heard. |
According to Russ Dixon's Trumpetplayersdirectory.com Brian says he plays on a 36B
http://www.trumpetplayersdirectory.com/trumpetplayerbrianmacdonald.html |
Cool read, lots of good info in there. When I grow up (  ) I wanna sound and play like Brian. What a classy guy and just animal chops! |
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James Becker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Outside of major differences of these two in bore size/shape/blow resistance, we've found Conn Connstellations valves have room for improvement.
For one, the weight of the moving parts on a Connstellation are easily 20% greater than Schilke. In an effort to reduce excess weight we've manufactured lighter action rods/valve stems from aluminium. You can also swap out the chunky 8/32 Conn finger buttons with much lighter buttons. And if the valves are to be rebuilt I like to turn a few extra ounces from the piston bottoms to achieve greater weight reduction.
No doubt there are loyalists to both trumpets for good reason. We're here to enhance your playing experience by offering our expertise when it can benefit you.
I hope this is helpful.
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