New Mouthpiece: The Wedge

digs · Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:12 am Post subject:

Kyle,

If you are viewing from your office for example, your company may have that website that the pictures come from blocked...

Dirk

tptguy · Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:42 am Post subject:

Dirk, Thanks for the tip. It's from my home computer so I take a look at my firewall settings. - Kyle

DrDave · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject:

I just posted detailed photos and instructions at www.wedgemouthpiece.com on how the Wedge should be oriented when played. This seems to cause a fair bit of confusion because it is so unusual, so I thought this might help.

Cheers,
DrDave
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

Eggtracy · Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:32 am Post subject:

So, I got my Wedge in the mail the other day. So far it has increased my range and endurance a little but the biggest difference I noticed was that it really filled out my lower register. When I did my Remington exercises the fifth and sixth partials were much easier. When I played in the lower register it was like BAM, full and open, it surprised me a bit. All of these effects did transfer, mostly, to my normal mouthpiece. I'm going to continue to test it out everyday and see if the effects become more evident. Thanks again, Dr. Dave, hoped my input has helped.
_________________
Lucas Tracy

H.N. White Liberty Bb/A Trumpet
F.E. Olds Special Bb Trumpet
Wedge/Bach 7C
Wedge/Curry 1.25C
King 602 Bb Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet
Curry 1.25VC

DrDave · Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: Wedge Update

This an update for those of you who are wondering about progress of making production models of the Wedge.

Here is where I am:

Basic Design
I have had feedback from enough beta testers that I know the basic elements of the best design and the tolerances within which the mouthpiece works. Some variables still require fine tuning. I have tried to do this by making hand made prototypes with one variable manipulated, but it is very difficult to do by hand because of inconsistencies in my final product. I am now at the point where I need to have CNC milling of prototypes so that I can change one variable and assess the effect. This will allow me to fine tune the initial production rim contour.

Size Options
The initial production line will offer 4 rim sizes (Warburton 3,4,5,7) and 3 cup depths (SV, MD, XD) for a total of 12 sizes. These correspond roughly to Bach 1.5, 3, 7, and 10.5 rim sizes with E, C, and A cups. There will also be a Flugel piece in a deep FLX cup in sizes 3,4,5 and 7. The line will be expanded with demand.

The Problem
Two local machine shops are currently probing a top to produce a MasterCAM file. I am told that they will be able to manipulate the curves on this file in order to clean it up and produce the variations I require for final CNC prototype testing. It would be ideal for me to be able to import the IGES files produced into Rhino so that I can play with them myself as well. However, the information I am getting from various sources about this process is conflicting.

1. The IGES files imported into Rhino will be just fine, or too large to handle, or too degraded to be useful.
2. It would be better to write the model in Rhino rather than using probed files. I have also had the opposite advice on this issue, indicating that it would be very difficult to accurately reproduce the size and contour of the 12 cups without probing.
3. CNC milling from probed data will not be as good as that from a model drawn from scratch in Rhino.

Once I have a program there are a number of local shops that can do the milling. The big obstacle seems to be getting a milling program from the prototype.

I wonder if any TH members with CAD experience have an opinion on the following:

1. Is IGES data from probing going to be usable in Rhino?
2. Will it be possible to add a scaled version of the rim contour to the 12 cup sizes from probed data in Rhino or MasterCAM? Would it be any easier if the rim and each of the 12 cups was produced in Rhino without using probed data?
3. Can anyone suggest a company who has expertise in this area and can do the kind of work I require? I am finding it a challenge to find someone in Vancouver with the know-how to complete all of the steps involved to produce a program ready for CNC milling.

Once this final hurdle is behind me it will not take long to have a production model available.

Keep an eye here for reviews from beta testers. There are now a number of mouthpieces in circulation. I am told that at least one review is coming soon.

Cheers,
Dr. Dave
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

patdublc · Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject: WEDGE REVIEW

Right you are DrDave - I promised you a review and here it is. I've been on my first mouthpiece safari in at least 15 years. So, my tag below is due for an update. I've been playing mostly on the Monette 4 series for the last year (B4, C4, E4, B4L, AP4). And, I still use a Curry 600-60TF for some stuff.

I met DrDave at this forum and started a dialogue with him about his work. I met up with him at ITG UMASS to try out some of his models. We were talking about trying something close to my current B4. He had a B4S that he had modified. My first reaction was that I had never cared for the cup of a B4S. But, it was the closest match that he had so I gave it a try in one of those loud & crowded ITG exhibit rooms. My tone and range were right where they should be and it felt surprisingly comfortable. My concern was that a lot of things sound and feel great in that environment when you give them a 5 minute test. I wanted a more thorough test.

When I got home from the conference, DrDave sent the modified B4S to me to test in my own environment. As I started to play it, I thought that it was very nice, but not exactly revolutionary. Then, after playing it for a few days, I was really starting to dig the feel. I was getting ready to switch over to my B4L and practice Mendez's La Virgen de la Macarena. I'm playing it in a couple of weeks and I have teased several trumpet friends that I will play an extended cadenza that ends on a pedal E and then finish on a high A (the one above high C). Just for kicks, I left my Wedge in for the run through. Wow - best I ever played it!!! Next, I grabbed Patrick Hessions book and started doing some of the exercises. The one where you ascend chromatically to double high C just jumped right out of the horn.

Last night, I played on it for the first time in an ensemble (concert band). I had the power, range, and tone that I wanted AND at the end of the rehearsal, I felt like I was just warming up.

I'm hooked. This has really worked well for me. I encourage others to give this freaky looking thing a try. We're all different, so maybe it will help you and maybe it won't. Be realistic. If you can't already play a double high C - at least a enough to make it sound through the horn - then, I doubt that this or any other mouthpiece is going to do it for you. It's not about "free" high notes. It's about improving the efficiency of how the chops interface with the horn.

Way to go DrDave!!!!!
_________________
Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models.

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

Hey Everybody,

Like others have mentioned, I too met Dr. Dave at the recent ITG conference and tried out several of his standard mouthpieces he had altered. None of the pieces he had on hand really worked at all for me. Of course, none of them were like my custom Curry mouthpiece that I've been using for the past 10+ years. I happen to have multiple copies of my Curry model and sent Dr. Dave one to alter. The piece arrived today and I'm really knocked out with it. Looking at the thing you'd think it wouldn't work, but it does and it works very well (for me). As an experiment I alternated playing the original Curry and Dr. Dave's Wedge version and the result is no contest. The Wedge far surpasses my expectations. The Wedge is still very new for me at this point but here is what I have gleaned so far. The Wedge hasn't actually added any actual range for me (so far) but all the notes I do have are easier to play, endurance is much improved, and my sound is much cleaner and more precise. In short, I love it.

My suggestion to anyone would be to acquire an extra mouthpiece copy of whatever you use and send one of them to Dr. Dave to alter, assuming you don't use one of his more common sizes he already has on hand.

Again, I look at this thing and can't believe it actually works as a trumpet mouthpiece. But it does, and nobody’s chops are more mouthpiece sensitive than mine. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Larry

patdublc · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Beta Review

I played my first gig on the Wedge Sunday night. It was an outdoor concert with a 45 piece community based concert band. The trumpet section was not as strong as is typical for this band, so at the last minute, I decided to play my large bore heavy wall Yamaha (6345HG) for best projection. I had not played this horn for a while because I've been enjoying lighter weight smaller bore horns. I'm not a kid any more.....lol. And, I had not played outside in a concert band for a while. Those two facts put together sent me to the gig with the idea that I would tire very quickly. Didn't happen. I was strong all night long. The Wedge was very comfortable and I actually felt stronger at the end of the concert than at the beginning. Projection, intonation and tone quality were just what I wanted and more than I expected.

pat
_________________
Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models.

TaylorBarnett80 · Veteran Member Joined: 11 Jul 2004 Posts: 188

Dr Dave,

Is it still possible to send you a mouthpiece to have altered into the Wedge design or are you too busy trying to get the production models out? The reason I ask is that I have a spare rim to my Bob Reeves mpc here and could send just the rim and therefore would have the ability to do an A/B test. Feel free to PM me or post your response.

Thanks,

Taylor

DrDave · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:58 am Post subject:

Hi Taylor,
I am pretty busy trying to get to production and am winding down the prototypes, but I still have a couple of modifications that I have promised for people, so if you send me your piece I'll do it for you. I have a day off from my regular job next week

Email me at drdave@wedgemouthpiece.com or davidharrison@telus.net and I'll let you know where to send it.

Thanks for your interest.

Dr Dave
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

shastastan · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:51 am Post subject:

DrDave. There are a lot of us out here with receding jaws. I for one have been on the mp safari to find the best over-all mp for my physical make-up. For endurance, range, and comfort, I seem to have settled on a Curry TC or TF with a Reeves 42 rim. I and others are plagued with the receding jaw problem but we have been able to adapt finding a mp that works for us. Some have been able to overcome their problems with B.E. or other techniques.

It seems that I read that your new design does not work as well for flat-chinned players. Is the converse then true, that it works better for receding jaw players? Anxious to hear your comments. Thanks!

Stan

DrDave · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:58 am Post subject:

Hi Stan,

This is a very interesting question to which I do not yet have complete answer. Most people have teeth that point slightly forward. That is to say that the teeth angle slightly forward so that the cutting edge is a bit ahead of the base of the tooth, so that viewed from the side the place where the teeth meet each other is a bit forward of where they meet the gums. This produces a natural forward arch of the dental structure. The lateral dip of the Wedge follows this. Some payers have teeth that are oriented straight up and down without this arch. These are the players who sometimes found the earlier prototypes, with a more marked lateral dip, uncomfortable. It placed too much pressure on the top lip. Newer models I think are lees of a problem that way.

One then needs to add the other variable of the receding jaw, or over-bite that you have, and that I to some extent share, although mine is small enough that I can mostly compensate with a jaw thrust. I do not know for sure how the Wedge will interact with this type of setup. I have not personally worked with anyone for whom this is an issue. It is a question that I would very much like to answer though. I think that a fairly aggressive lateral dip, perhaps with a degree of hook or more acute angle of curvature near the bottom rim, might functionally balance compression on the top and bottom teeth and be a benefit in cases like yours. Why don’t I make you a prototype so we can test the theory? Email me and we can discuss options. This would be very interesting to work on together.
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

GMacDaddyTPO · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:29 am Post subject:

Have you had any experience with these for players that play with air pockets? I play with pretty extreme pockets on both my upper and lower lips (sometimes my whole face!), and it drastically changes the way a piece will sit on my dental structure.

Any thoughts?

DrDave · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject:

Hi,

I am guessing that the Wedge would have the same effect on your playing that it does for those without pockets. The sloping shoulders of the Wedge might allow more forward displacement of your face adjacent to the mouthpiece. I guess this could pose a problem with air leak at the corners if things get too distorted. But I think the basic Wedge configuration would likely work.
Dr. Dave
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

Eggtracy · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject:

Dr. Dave wanted me to post some other impressions of the Wedge I emailed him, here they are.

1. So far it's fairly comfortable, not really any
pressure issues. It was a little strange only having
pressure in parts of my lips but, I'm used to it now.
2. Tuning seems to be pretty much the same to me
3. I think that there is a little added flexibility,
actually, all those things in that question seem
noticably easier, even shakes.
4. Well, at first the range difference wasn't much,
maybe a half step or two but, now there is a larger
difference. I can do Remington exercises up to the
sixth partial (High C) every time I practice now,
which I could only do on some days before, and when I
could it was usually only once or twice a day.
5. My endurance has been much, much better which is
another thing that I have been struggling with. My
lips used to swell pretty quick before but with the
Wedge the swelling is almost non-existent.
6. As far as improvements go, I would be hard pressed
to come up with any complaints. I guess one small
improvement would be to ingrave the "T" and "B" into
the mouthpiece as the sharpie wore off on mine pretty
quickly. Don't worry though, I kept track of which
side was which.

I forgot to add to my last message that when I
play the circle of fifths I find myself able to arpeggiate over two octaves on scales that I was only able to arpeggiate on one octave and then up to the third or fifth of the next octave.
_________________
Lucas Tracy

H.N. White Liberty Bb/A Trumpet
F.E. Olds Special Bb Trumpet
Wedge/Bach 7C
Wedge/Curry 1.25C
King 602 Bb Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet
Curry 1.25VC

DrDave · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the feedback Lucas.

Lucas's responses to specific questions I had asked him in an earlier email were so typical of people who have played the Wedge for a while, and for whom it works, that I wanted him to share it. The changes in performance do tend to evolve over time.

The sharpie T and B was something I did for a while because there was so much confusion about playing orientation. I am now sending out playing instructions with prototypes, and the design has evolved so that there is little or no difference between the top and bottom rim.

Hopefully more reviews will appear soon. Those for whom it does not work should also feel free to post. This is supposed to be an exchange of information, not an ad campaign for the Wedge.

Dr. Dave
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

Don Lee · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: This is a test

Can't seem to post very well.......

DrDave · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject:

Hi Don,
If you are still having technical problems do you wnat me to post the email you sent me?

Dr. Dave
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

Don Lee · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: post for me......

Dave:
Can you post the email that I sent to you?

Thanks,

Don

Eggtracy · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject:

About the overbite/receding jaw issue; I recently noticed that I have an overbite and I compensate by thrusting my jaw forward. It's might be too little of an overbite to make a difference, seeing as I didn't notice it right away, to matter for the Wedge but, I have no issues.
_________________
Lucas Tracy

H.N. White Liberty Bb/A Trumpet
F.E. Olds Special Bb Trumpet
Wedge/Bach 7C
Wedge/Curry 1.25C
King 602 Bb Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet
Curry 1.25VC