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Bruin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 1346 Location: L.A. area
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Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Yamahaguy wrote: | MikeyMike wrote: | Tough on intonation and even tougher on vinyl. | True. Back in the day, I always taped my records onto cassettes. Remember those?
I remember the very first solo I transcribed, posted here:
http://www.jazztrumpetsolos.com/solo.asp?soloist=MilesDavis&Solo=Auprivaue
Couldn't slow it down- I'll bet I rewound that tape a hundred times or more! But it was well worth it, lots of good licks in that one. On patterns...you really should transpose them in all keys. Ed is correct, they are great for the fingers but even better for your ears!
Chuck, you're welcome. I've been using that stuff for years, good theory and patterns not only for myself but my students as well.
Peace,
-Dennis |
Dennis - TERRIFIC website and resource. Thanks to you and all who contribute to the list of wonderful transcribed solos.
Herb _________________ '64 Conn Connstellation 38B
Jupiter 846S flugelhorn
CarolBrass Mini Pocket Trumpet
Schilke 17& 17D4d4 trumpet mpcs
Schilke 17F flugelhorn mpc |
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Terron Regular Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2008 Posts: 66
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Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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I see that this thread is quite old but reading the original post made me laugh
Quote: | I work at a music store where I spend 90% of my time surfing the internet |
I do exactly the same thing, in fact im at work right now
Terron |
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butxifxnot Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 2353
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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Honest qustion:
I assume practicing transcriptions is only good when you know exactly what the solo sounds like in its context? IE the recording that the transcription came from, what the chords sound like, where in the development of the solo the lick happens, etc. _________________ "Never practice, always perform."
-Adolf Herseth |
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jazztrpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2003 Posts: 680 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:03 am Post subject: |
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butxifxnot wrote: | Honest qustion:
I assume practicing transcriptions is only good when you know exactly what the solo sounds like in its context? IE the recording that the transcription came from, what the chords sound like, where in the development of the solo the lick happens, etc. |
Not necessarily. While it is important and useful to know the solo in its original context, you can get a lot out of practicing a solo outside of its original context.
First, you can treat the solo as an etude to work on your chops and fingers. Work out difficult sections just as you would work on Charlier or Bousquet, etc.
Second, you can study the implied harmony of the lines in the solo. A great improviser will almost always outline a certain harmonic sound even if it does not always appear to come from the harmony of the tune. This could be through a pattern, chordal structure, or a more linear approach such as a scale. If the solo is over a freer tune, there will still be aspects of harmony that you can check out, even though in rarer cases you may not be able to find an implied harmony. There are still things to learn from a solo like that!
Third, you can check out voice leading in the implied harmonic atmosphere.
There are other things that you can get out of studying a solo outside of its original context, but the three above are the things that come to my mind. That being said, it is certainly important to study and listen to the solo in its original context, because you can then listen for style, harmonic choices, and interaction. _________________ Jon Barnes
Jazz Trumpet, U.S. Navy Band Commodores
Adjunct Instructor of Jazz Trumpet, Rowan University
www.jonbarnesphoto.com
http://dcjazzphotog.wordpress.com
http://imagesofalexandria.wordpress.com |
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Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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butxifxnot wrote: | I assume practicing transcriptions is only good when you know exactly what the solo sounds like in its context? | It helps, but not a necessity...at least- not necessarily!
I always like to hear what the improviser "had to say" at that moment. However, I've played solos to tunes I know and still understand it without hearing him.
I find it beneficial to analyze patterns or note choices whether I hear it or not.
Peace,
-Dennis |
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rusco Regular Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2004 Posts: 87
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:32 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Craig! Very Cool Stuff!! |
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butxifxnot Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 2353
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Derek and/or Jonathan:
Ideally, would you recommend studying solos in that manner to an amatuer like me? I'm still quite new to the language of improv, hence my question...
Those things you mentioned sound like elements to work on in general, after I have a grasp of style and context. Do you know what I'm saying?
I mean, if I can't find a recording, then it's better to play it than NOT play it! ;D But I feel there would be less question as to what exactly the soloist is musically saying if I can hear the context. I assume more proficient soloists such as yourselves and many others on Trumpetherald, even when practicing licks in silence without context, create context in your mind on which to base the ideas and emote them.
But as a fairly new soloist, I was taught not to practice improv licks unless there is audial information in my mind to base it on, be it playing along with a mental/physical recording or be it a motive of my own creation.
Am I off base? _________________ "Never practice, always perform."
-Adolf Herseth |
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jazztrpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2003 Posts: 680 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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butxifxnot wrote: | Am I off base? |
Not at all! I'd say that you are right on track. Study the solos in their context so that you can hear how the soloists' melodies fit over the chords. You are correct in stating that eventually you can create a context in your own mind for these things. _________________ Jon Barnes
Jazz Trumpet, U.S. Navy Band Commodores
Adjunct Instructor of Jazz Trumpet, Rowan University
www.jonbarnesphoto.com
http://dcjazzphotog.wordpress.com
http://imagesofalexandria.wordpress.com |
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ozboy Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 187 Location: AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:54 am Post subject: |
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This is one of the most helpful posts in the history of the universe. (Maybe that's a bit of an overstatement.................) _________________ http://www.myspace.com/acousticbrewbiz |
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ozboy Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 187 Location: AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:04 am Post subject: |
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Sorry folks. I have been having trouble with the site on my computer. Didn't mean to duplicate. Computer kept freezing _________________ http://www.myspace.com/acousticbrewbiz
Last edited by ozboy on Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ozboy Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 187 Location: AUSTRALIA
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healey.cj Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 2011
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:32 am Post subject: |
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...
Last edited by healey.cj on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:35 am Post subject: |
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butxifxnot wrote: | I mean, if I can't find a recording, then it's better to play it than NOT play it! | Yes...when you listen enough, you'll know what it is supposed to sound like.
I know what Clifford sounds like, just like Chet, Miles, Dizzy, Lee, Freddie, etc.
You have that sound in your head and you'll want to emulate that when you play whether
you've heard that particular song or not. You might miss some wonderful vocabulary!
IMO,
-Dennis |
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jazzfrenchhornguy Regular Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2003 Posts: 60 Location: Brooklyn
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trumpetdiva1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2002 Posts: 1423 Location: Indiana
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