What makes an Olds Ambassador NOT a pro horn?

[BebopVermont]

Well?



I've been meaning to get one for a while, but i dont know if i'd be better off just saving a couple hundred more for a olds super.

Thanks
Sean

[Gilligan]

The Ambassador was built with younger musicians in mind and has heavier brass in the bell, bracing, and mouthpiece reciever to help withstand more abuse. But as the horns were built on the same asembly line as the pro instruments the craftmanship in the horns should be very close to equal.

[trumpetal]

First, it's not because of the sound. In the hands of a pro, it sounds like a pro.

So...it's the bells and whistles, smoothness of the 3rd slide is not pro quality, valves are good, but not buttery and not super fast, no first slide thumb saddle, relatively cheap lacquer job that wears easily at contact points, and to my knowlege never silver...this kind of stuff.

But dollar for dollar, it's the best sound for the money. I still have mine and use it for parades, other outdoor gigs, etc. when I don't want to baby the horn.

And you cannot kill them unless you hit them with a hammer. Dents come and go, with no particular effect on the sound quality. It's a real student horn made for real students that abuse their horns and still need to play and sound good.

[buzzer]

Found a rough looking Ambassador earlier this year in a sale - 25 bucks. Valves very fast, so no problem there. Had Kanstul work it over, including a Bach 43 leadpipe and a rounded tuning slide, and a re-laquer job which is needed badly. Minor denting fixed. Looks fantastic now, plays very well, bright sound similar to my Mendez. Money well spent. Played good before, plays great now.

[bgwbold]

Olds was not like some other brands. Their student horns were as well made and good playing as their pro horns. The Ambassador was a little more sturdily built. There is nothing fancy about their looks, but if that doesn't bother you, they are nice plaing instruments.

Mike

[plankowner110]

If someone pays you money to hear you play your Ambassador, then you've got a pro horn!
_________________
C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763

[jgadvert]

I was hoping there would be more elaboration/info on this thread. There has been so much written about the Ambassador. I've had some real dogs in this model over the years.

While it's a nice sounding horn, I've always noticed how tight the slots are on these horns. Gotta really use lip pressure when slurring around. I can see this being good for those in begginer levels. Other horns (pro most times) flow so much easier. What "construction wise" causes this ? Could it be the heavy bell in this case? I'd like to try the other Olds models(Super, Mendez etc..) and see if that is the case. If not..why?

[musicmork]

Why not try and loosen those 2 short straight braces (NOT "S" BRACES) that attach to the valve casing? It will open the horn up a LOT!!!
On one of my Ambassador's it is like that and the horn is much open and free blowing.
_________________
MARK /aka "musicmork"/ aka " The Creator "
TRUMPET: Getzen , Olds
MOUTHPIECES Bach 3-C, Schilke 13a4a
CORNET: Holton Galaxy (Awesome horn)
KEYBOARDS: Kurzweil PC88MX,Yamaha S-30, Casio Privia 575R

[mulligan stew]

I agree that the slots are tight on the Ambassadors...although I don't think this is what makes it a "student" horn. There are many pro horns that slot tightly. Air, not lip pressure, allows you to get around the slots. For what it's worth, my ambassador doesn't slot any tighter than my Schilke S22, but way tighter than my old B1Lb.

Agree w/ Mork--the heavy bell and unique bracing at the valve cluster are what give it this tendency. I've heard good things about Ambassadors that have had some of these braces removed.

In the end these labels really don't mean a lot. The ambassador was a unique instrument, built for young players, that with or without a little tweaking can be used in many pro settings.
_________________
Scott
My trio:

https://vectortrio.bandcamp.com/

[_Daff]

How do you distinguish between the various Olds models? The reason I ask is that I recently learned that a friend still has his Olds from high school in the closet, but he said that all he remembered about it is that it is an Olds. What should I have him look for when I get him to dig it out?

I'm guessing he got it in the 6th grade, around 1966. Not sure if it was new then. It should be in decent shape. It sat in the closet since graduating high school in 1972, then his kid played it four four years, quit, and it went back into the closet.

[nowave]

Hey Daff,

You've probably seen the Olds Central site: http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds.htm

... but the easiest thing to do is just ask him what's written on the bell and what the serial number is.

I love the Ambassadors, but they do vary in sound and playability. I had one that no amount of tweaking could bring up to the level of mulligan's, which was a fantastic player before he did a thing to it.

I have a Super now that I love, and whether it's the bracing or the (I'm guessing here) thinner bell, it's got a much more complex sound than any Ambassador I've played.

[mulligan stew]

Many actually state the name of the model...usually on the bell. More intriguing--and frustrating, but what the hell--is tracking down variants within the model--LA Olds vs. Fullerton Olds, etc.

Your friend's horn could be a decent Ambassador, an incredible Super...who knows. One nice thing is that it's definitely pre-1966, which is around the time that some people thing certain Olds models started going downhill.

Take a look at it, get pics, post 'em...we'll sort it out!

scott
_________________
Scott
My trio:

https://vectortrio.bandcamp.com/

[_Daff]

Thanks guys. I'll get him to dig it out. I love treasure hunts.

[dr-pepp]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=376906124&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT

Of course you could always pay for the price of a Super and get an Ambassador instead! Ebay never ceases to amaze me... I've seen modified Ambassadors go for $200 to $300, but a '70's Ambassador for over $400?
_________________
Clay Collins
Owner, Centex Brass
www.centexbrass.com
also administrator of Olds Central
www.olds-central.com

[radiobob]

Whoa! That's the most expensive Ambassador I've ever seen! I have a 1970 Ambassador in near mint condition I'm going to list in a couple days. I hope it gets that much interest! I have a '52, a '65 and a '70 Ambassadors, they all seem to be built about the same and all are good players. I've heard '72 as the date they started to go downhill. Here's an interview with R. Dale Olson that I've posted before that has some interesting things about Olds horns in the '50's and '60's:


http://www.trumpetguild.org/2002conference/fri/402.html


Those extra braces on the Ambassadors seem to be the main difference between them and the pro models, other than bell materials and spit valves.

Bob

[JoeCool]

The best Ambassadors were the pre Norlin models. This is anything before 1963 or roughly 500xxx SN's. I play them exclusively. I have a '53 that has the warmest sound and when I want something that sizzles, I use my '48 that is about 6 oz lighter and is quite responsive. These horns really resonate. I probably try twice as hard in the upper register on anything else.

[KanstulBrass]

I once asked Zig about the Ambassador. He almost smiled, but he said, "That's no student horn".

fwiw


Regards,
_________________
Charles G Hargett
Brass Industry Consultant

(Kanstul, Shires, BAC, Benge)

[forthaney]

[musicmork]

Paul,

All I know is that on MY particular horn the braces are just unattached at the casing points...but still attached to the leadpipe and bell. The horn resonates more than my other Ambassadors do.

[bgwbold]

I guess anything is possible, but most horns do have at least a couple of solder joints between the valve casing and the bell, one on either side. A stock Ambassador has two also, but it has two more bell braces than a Bach has, for example.

Mike