Anyone leaving soon?

[puckish02]

"I didn't realize he had been banned . . ."

I guess that's the "rub", isn't it? Folks have just disappeared over time and, without any kind of indignant response, like what I've introduced here, the assumption is they just "faded away" (when the reality is they were probably banished under cloak of darkness - likely by a lone, rogue, intolerant moderator who likes to throw his weight around). I seriously doubt Johnsboy is this guy's lone victim.

Again, hey mods; maybe you should talk amongst yourselves and think about whether or not the actions of a few (or just one) are painting an unsavory picture of you all, as a group. I don't know how moderators are chosen (is there some kind of induction process?), so I don't know how you would drop one from your "august body" for repeated boorish behavior and stifling of discussion. You should give it some thought, though - he's often pretty out of control.

ConnArtist: Johnsboy still lurks here but can't log on (of course) - he said to tell you he appreciated your kind thoughts.

[fraserhutch]

Dude, this is not government. This forum is owned and run by someone who pays the bills in keeping it going. You are a GUEST of that person, in effect. Freedom of speech doesn't apply here. I really don't see how this is such a difficult thing to grasp. If you were to come into my home and behave that way, i would ask you to leave too.

You have the right to not come here, but if you do, you are expected to abide by the rules. Furthermore, the mods have NO obligation in any way shape for form in tolerating anybody. I

[fraserhutch]

[puckish02]

"Freedom of speech doesn't apply here. I really don't see how this is such a difficult thing to grasp. If you were to come into my home and behave that way, i would ask you to leave too."

Oh I grasp it alright. Here's something you should consider: the owners of this site established it with the specific intent of providing a place where invited guests could meet and, in a civil manner, discuss topics of the day related to a shared passion. Essentially TH is their (the owner's) home. The owner can't be there all the time so he asks a designated number of folks (moderators) to oversee the discussions and moderate disputes. Somewhere along the way one of these "chosen ones" decides he needs to insinuate, uninvited, his views into conversations about a topic near and dear to his heart . . . and to stifle differing points of view. He does this by, without discussion among the rest of the mods or with the owner, summarily banishing anyone who offends his own world view. Even worse, after having accomplished the invited guest's ouster this guy tries to paint the action as having been sanctioned by all of the moderators instead of as the petty act of a single bully. Since you mentioned how you would feel about how guests are treated in your house - tell me, tough guy, how would you feel if another of your guests started culling the discussion group to satisfy his own desires and attributed the culling to you? I don't think you'd like that. I don't think you would feebly defend your moderator guest when people started to object.

And while we're at it - just what "way" did the person we're talking about behave? Do you even know what prompted the out of control individual to banish him? If you do then I find myself wondering if, maybe, you are that individual. I don't insist on freedom of speech and neither does my friend. I do insist that, when I'm an invited guest to a discussion and someone doesn't agree with my position or mode of speech that they either explain the error in my reasoning . . . or shut the hell up. I don't mind if someone disagrees with me - I do mind if my words are deleted and then snide comments are made about me and my deleted words.

Are you the rogue moderator in question?

[fraserhutch]

I disagree. This is something you should consider: the owner(s) of this site have extended to you whatever privileges you have to post your messages on this PRIVATELY OWNED message board.

You went updid you think would happen?
I'm not defending the moderator per se, but I am taking issue with the entitlement you have been displaying in your posts.

yews, the moderator is as you mentioned an extension of the owner. As such, he/she again has no responsibility to put up with anything at all. If you don't like it, you are, as I mentioned totally free to not post messages here, and to even go and establish your own board.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter you acted. The fact is, the mods took exception, and banned you. They owe us no explanation unless they so desire to do so.

You can demand what you want all you want, but the mod(s)have already told you to shut up by banning you. They don't owe you any discussion as to why what you are doing is verboten, and the certainly don't owe you any arbitration process. This is what you don't get - YOU DON'T MAKE THE RULES HERE.

And why you would feel compelled to call me "tough guy"? Well, that too is just childish. But I totally expect that from you now.

And finally, no I am not a moderator. There are no rogue moderators here - just thos e appointed by the owner. Deal with it.

[Don Lee]

[fraserhutch]

I understand that. My point is that expectation of fundamental fairness is nto necessarily applicable here, and Johnboy is trying to impose his definition of it However, given that mod's side of the story is "The user in question was banned after repeated warnings and continuing to post material in violation of the Usage Agreement. " then if that much is true (and who are we to believe that it isn't), then all arguments of fairness are moot. We are not owed fairness by the mods (not that I am implying that this mod was not fair), and we are neither guaranteed freedom of speech nor the right to argue with a moderator.

Sorry, but for all my experience and time here, I have never seen the banishment of an individual who didn't behave in a manner that provoked it. I don't think that happened here either. I don't have a problem with Johnboy, in fact, I enjoyed his posts. I just have issues with those who constantly abuse the "freedom of speech" victimization card as a defense for uncivil, inappropriate, or undesired (by the mods, etc) behavior.

However, you have a point, and I will post no more on this.

[Don Lee]

[slide911]

I've seen good moderators, and I've seen moderators who have a sense of entitlement and are nasty as all get out. I was banned once from a jazz forum for mentioning that I was starting a simple Facebook fan page for those interested in acoustic jazz. The moderator took exception thinking I was trying to compete with him even though the facebook page was just that, a simple facebook group and he had a major site with advertising, etc. I thought it was an overreaction, particularly as I was a pretty consistent poster, but, as has been said, it was his forum. Doesn't make it right however.
_________________
1921 Conn 80A Cornet
1934 King Silvertone Cornet
1951 Martin Committee Trumpet

[LittleRusty]

I know of at least one other poster that was banned.

[Don Lee]

[LittleRusty]

I meant to stay out of this, but...

If you have followed the postings of Johnsboy you will find many times over the last six months or so where his posts have been edited by the mods.

There have been claims of unfair moderation over that time also. Sometimes I agreed. Sometimes I didn't agree.

This could be a case of over zealous mods or someone who isn't interested in coloring between the lines.

You can decide for yourself.

[lmf]

One doesn't have to read his posts and become upset to the point of leaving TH. If his posts offend - ignore them. You probably don't let "one person" in the "real world" cause you to leave the things you enjoy. One or more people making questionable comments on this "cyberspace" forum won't cause me to leave TH. I just ignore 'em in my mind and ignore 'em when I see the discussions going nowhere. Why should I let such people push my buttons?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

[JBResponse]

"If you have followed the postings of Johnsboy you will find many times over the last six months or so where his posts have been edited by the mods."

I just read the last six months of Johnsboy's posts and found that exactly zero of his posts were edited by the mods and exactly zero of his posts were removed. The only actions taken by the mods with regard to johnsboy was banishment. Period.

Ditto Puckish02 - no edits, no removals - just banishment.

Here's another irony for you - Puckish02 just got a PM from the mods . . . but he can't open it because one has to log in in order to do so - the mods, apparently, don't even understand their own mail handling system.

LittleRusty: you need to tell the truth - making false claims about people who can't defend themselves is almost (but not quite) as unconscionable as banishing members in good standing because you disagree with their world view and want to silence them.

[LittleRusty]

JBResponse,

Your "facts" are wrong. How would you know if a post has been removed? By reading it? Hint: if it has been removed you cannot read it.

I am taking the high road by not going into details, but suffice it to say JB and I got into quite a spitting match in late July that ended up in a good number of posts that were removed by the moderators.

Edit:

And there were other posts since then.

P.S. I agree about false claims, which is why I never would post them.

[PH]

Does anyone else think that at least a couple of participants in this thread are actually Johnsboy? My spider sense is tingling.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com

[lh]

Pat,

I sure hope "spider sense" is not a euphomism....

[LittleRusty]

[Crazy Finn]

[PH]