Yamaha Xeno vs. Bach Strad vs. Zeus G vs. Conn V1

trickg · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:53 am Post subject:

quote -- "Reading between the lines, I am willing to bet that most people here would love to have a Zeus.
Its the one trumpet here with the most consistently great reviews. It seems to be hard to beat by the big boys with all their resources. "

I don't get that feeling at all. In fact, It seems to me that the ZeuS falls right in line with today's current Bach Strads. I play tested a ZeuS side by side with my Bach and although if played pretty well, I wouldn't trade my Bach for it, but I've got a pretty sweet playing Bach if I do say so myself. But, I also took the time to play a bunch of horns until I found mine and I've had many a person tell me that it's one of the better ones they've played. Note: The guy who owned the ZeuS that I play tested no longer has it. He sold it for cash to get a vintage Conn. This guy has bought and traded for about 4 different horns since I've known him though so it may not say as much about the horn as you might think. By the way, the vintage Conn he bought plays VERY nicely.

I have another theory about Bachs and why some people refuse to play them. They don't want to be considered sheep. They don't want to be like the others despite the fact that the horns are a time honored and tested design and are the choice of more pro level players out there than probably all other horns brands combined. If my horn were trashed or stolen today I'd play a lot of different horns. I'd play Schilkes, Kanstuls, Conns, Yamahas, Bach's, etc. Heck, I'd even consider a ZeuS! I'd keep my mind open, but there is a good chance that I would come home with another Bach for several reasons.

1. Despite the reputation of quality control, they are good horns
2. Bang for the buck, they are pretty hard to beat
3. After having played Bach for the last 16 years, I'm used to how they play and I like how they play
4. For where I live, I could play a BUNCH of them so I could hand pick the new one just like I did the last one.
5. I would never have to worry about whether or not I would blend with a section. I've never had a problem blending while playing a Bach. I can't say the same for some of the other brands.

But, I would keep my mind open. I've played some great horns over the last year or so, among them being a CV1, a vintage Conn and a Benge that is really sweet. But in the end, it will come down to just two things: how does it play and how do I sound?
_________________
Patrick Gleason
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

KevinInGeorgia · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:10 pm Post subject:

OK .. I have to say something about all the bitching about Bach's.

1st) Yes I agree the Older Bach's are Great.. I am lucky enough to own a Mt. Vernon C with a 238 Bell.. I will never part with it.. It might get buried with me, but if I try to do that Joel ( Riffdawg) will dig it back up.. If you can afford it buy an older Bach but Ebay has artificially caused the inflation of the price of Bachs.. ( To many Parents will buy ANYTHING there kids want)

2nd) No Bach is a Lost-Cause/totally bad horn.. Yes they maybe put together like S**T today but that is why it's nice to have wonderful Aftermarket Parts & Great Repairman.. There has been talk on other threads about Pro's buying a Bach then having it send directly to a Great Brass Repairman (Akright, Tanabe, Malone, Blackburn) I’ve had my Bach Modified with Blackburn Pipes & Tuning Slide. & love it

3rd) There are a LOT of great horns out there. Getzens have great valves. Love the sound of a Copper Bell Kanstul, Yamahas have tight valves & good over all sound. I don’t recommend beginners get a Bach I think there are better values out there in the student line horns

4th) Many of us Amateur players will never have the money to buy all the horns we want. If I win the Lottery I’m calling Cliff Blackburn & telling him to make me one of everything.. Next to that I play what give me the best value, best sound & easiest playing. ( & Doesn't get me KILLED by my Wife)

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georgia_trumpeter@yahoo.com

[ This Message was edited by: KevinInGeorgia on 2003-07-01 15:12 ]

gregleisa · New Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 Posts: 7 Location: Alabama

Several of you have ranked the four horns in the $1000-$1500 price range. Assuming the Zeno is $1500 and V1 and the Bach 180-37 are all at least $1400, and assuming that the Zeus is $1000. well then, are the three horns costing 33% more really good enough to justify the extra expense?

I guess what I'm asking is how much of a factor is the price? For some of us that $500 is the difference between getting a horn and not getting one. The purchase plan is impossible to beat based on what I've seen.

How about someone saying what trumpets does the Zeus beat out in the same $1000-$1500 range?

Greg

TrptMan · Regular Member Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 62

[ This Message was edited by: TrptMan on 2003-07-03 12:33 ]

2LIP · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:56 am Post subject:

I just wanted to add my opinions:

Zeno: Probably most consistent horn in the bunch. You either love them or hate them.
Conn V1: I tried 3 different ones, and I was not "in love" with them. Nice horns for some folks, but not the best for me.
Bach: I know many people that play them. I am not a fan, and have never been one. I agree that there a few good ones out there, but they just never played the way I like. My first "Pro line" horn was a Getzen and I have always leaned to the bright compact commercial/lead type horns until now, and the Bach doesn't fit with that either. If I played in a section of Bach players, then I might consider the hunt to find a good one. Otherwise, beware of the Bach.
ZeuS: I recently played some Kanstul horns and was very please with the way they played. I didn't find the QC issues or intonation issues that others have found. I would put them close to or on par with Schilkes, only darker sounding with more finish options ala ZeuS.

That being said, coin toss to the ZeuS and Yamaha, you could save a few beans buying the ZeuS and still have some $ leftover for other fun stuff... : )

MHStrumpet · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:37 am Post subject:

1. Bach Strad
2. Conn V1
3. Xeno
4. Zeus
I would go with the strad because I use one right now and I like it very much. As for the zeus I haven't used or tried one out. I'm in high school, so right now I am going to go with the strad.

JGulyas · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:12 pm Post subject:

Just to stir the pot a bit...

I haven't played a Xeno or a V1 but have owned a Zeus, several Bachs and Yamahas. I'd rate them like this:

Xeno
Zeus
V1
Strad

The *only* reason the Xeno is on top of the Zeus is because I'm a die-hard Yamaha fan. All my big horns are Yamahas, but they're all the 6000 series (pre-Xeno). I've heard from various people in my area who have played both the 6000s and the Xenos that the 6000s are better horns. I may be able to play one and make my own judgement later on.

I've owned a Zeus and it was a very good horn. It just didn't "click" with me like Yamahas always have.

I've never really been a big fan of Conns, it was a feel thing.

I've had several Strads (back in the 80s) and I had valve troubles with every one of them. So, like I said before, just to stir the pot; I put the Yamaha up top because of my bias, the Zeus right behind it because it *really* is a great horn, the V1 right behind that not because I've played one, but *to me* anything is better than a Bach.

John
_________________
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John

US Navy Bandsman 1996-2010 (Trumpet; Audio Engineer)
Mpc - Kanstul/Monette B6, Hammond Design custom "JG"
Bb - Yamaha 6335HGSII
C - Eastman ETR530
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oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 6:14 pm Post subject:

As proof that I have fabricated nothing for my "malicious personality" I urge Alex and other Zeus people to head on over to:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=5956&forum=7

This forum is made to be a fair place to give honest to goodness reviews of the Zeus, complete with a template to follow and everything. I made mention to this post without linking it in an earlier post, saying that many fair people did find complaints with the Zeus, after someone said no one had complained. As I stated earlier, many still liked the horn, but found plenty of faults and choose *gasp* a BACH STRADIVARIUS over the Zeus. I was called a liar and told I was trying to justify my over-priced pathetic Strad when I mentioned it, so I thought I'd look it up for you Zack. Plenty of people don't think your horn is the trumpet of God. And for the record, I play a Vintage One, that I bought for a very VERY fair price, from a salesman who acted like a dignified proffesional, unlike you Alex.

Zachary Music · Veteran Member Joined: 30 Oct 2002 Posts: 271

Hobbit,
Here you go again. What a tremendous discovery on your part. You should be really proud of yourself. Did you just crawl out of your little cave, or are you just slow mentally? Wake up! I think everyone has known about that thread for many months now. As much as you are trying and straining yourself to prove whatever you are trying to proove, you are dead wrong, there are no complaints and no faults with the ZeuS. It is one of the best trumpets currently on the market and the price makes it an unbeatable value. Nothing even comes close. You’re going to have to face the facts sometime.

Of course there is personal preference for any instrument, especially when being reviewed by some people who are not ZueS owners and may not have the guts to admit that its better than what they own and paid big dollars for. That’s just human nature.

So now its time for you to crawl back into your little cave and practice on your Steinway/Selmer or whatever the heck it really is, which you bought from a dignified salesman. Let me know if you make any new discoveries.
Alex

BenDover · Regular Member Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 70

Alex, Alex, Alex,

Your English has improved, but your posts are still full of sarcasm and insults. Did you wear out your welcome in Old Europe?

BenDover

Zachary Music · Veteran Member Joined: 30 Oct 2002 Posts: 271

What do you mean BenDover? Canada is not in Old Europe. Do you have an atlas in the house?
My reply simply reflects what any stupid or negative post deserves. Insult me and I will insult you back.
I am sure you will do exactly the same.
Alex

BenDover · Regular Member Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 70

Alex,

I know precisely where Old Europe is in relation to Canada, you ninny. It would seem that you have an identical twin named Andre posting from another continent...perhaps Andre could become your first artist rep for your Zoos?!? Or are you waiting for someone from Athens?

Just this morning I was reminded of the difference between you and dog feces...eventually the dog feces loses its' smell.

Plugging my nose,

Ben

Zachary Music · Veteran Member Joined: 30 Oct 2002 Posts: 271

BenDover,

You checked the map did you. Good boy.
Andre and I am no relation.

Try to keep your anal fixations to yourself will you.
You have been bending over too long.

BenDover · Regular Member Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 70

HorneyMikey · Veteran Member Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 325

I am surprised that you guys have not yet figured out that Alex is playing you all for saps. He knows that the longer he keeps flaming these posts, the more free advertising he gets. AND, his threads keep getting pushed to the top of the page, where more people see them.

Like we all learned back in elementary school; the best way to deal with the playground bully is to just ignore him.

Try it.

By the way, Kanstul's phone number is (888) 526-7885. Call them for the real scoop.

And when you do call, ask them level of horn he is using for parts. If he is selling the Zeus at a little over $1,000 now, how much do you think he pays Kanstul? And, how much time and how good of a quality of material do think Kanstul can afford to put into a horn that cheap.
AND, Alex keeps passing the Zeus off as a great copy of a Mount Vernon Bach Bb.

Vincent must be rolling over in his grave.......

[ This Message was edited by: HorneyMikey on 2003-07-06 12:39 ]

Zachary Music · Veteran Member Joined: 30 Oct 2002 Posts: 271

BenDover
I knew you would like the comeback. I couldn’t care less what Phil Smith plays and why. Don’t use him or anyone else here as a crutch. The point is that I am a success and it bugs you. I have something to show for it and I’ll keep rubbing it in your face.

Before you start getting threatening try having the guts to reveal your name and location and drop the 8 to 10 names under which you post here. Although, I kind of enjoyed TrptMaster and TrptMan. I hope you bring them back.

[ This Message was edited by: Zachary Music on 2003-07-06 12:33 ]

BenDover · Regular Member Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 70

Alex,

You're nothing if you're not consistant. Your wild guesses as to my alter ego were as spot on as your own review of the Zeus trumpet. It may well be time for me to dedicate another tune, Alex. Pity that I don't know the McDonald's theme song...it would be so appropriate to give you a face full of Ronald.

Later on you,

Ben

Batmann · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Dec 2002 Posts: 112

Ben,

I am not sure if Alex knows who Phil Smith is as he has not been featured in any porno movies or has had his picture displayed on any cereal boxes. I am curious as to how many pros have traded in their old trumpets for a zoos sagitarius?

BenDover · Regular Member Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 70

Batmann,

Be honest...did you see the Bat Signal or could you just smell Alex?

Ben

gzent · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 10:37 am Post subject:

Ben,

Your feeble adolescent attempts at humor are:

1) Not in the same league as Alex, B&B, et al.
2) Simply giving Alex more visibility
3) Getting old in a hurry

Either go back to TPO or give it up and go practice.

gzent