Valve Guards, they seem to be doing more damage

ARB · Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:59 pm Post subject:

to my horn than is done without the darn thing. I have one of the better ones 'leather specialties' and it's making wear marks around the area where the slides met the valves. Has anyone else had this problem?
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Allen - 'Chops-in-Hotlanta'

00 Schilke S22
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jhatpro · Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:47 pm Post subject:

I took the guards off all my horns, but priimarily because I became convinced they were dampening the resonance.

The only damage/discoloration I experienced was my own fault. I got bored one day and made my own valve guard, using a piece of leather I got at a hobby shop. The leather had been dyed and the dye transferred to the silverplate. Took me a week's worth of polishing to get the marks off.
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1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

radial · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 8:18 am Post subject:

I've had no experience with the Leather Specialties guards. They seem to be highly praised by the posters here. I've used one of the Schilke guards for years without any problems. They're inexpensive and do the job. Don't even think about the Bach guards.

MikeZ · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 8:15 am Post subject:

I've got a Leather Specialties valve guard for both of my horns and I'm not seeing any wear or marks of any kind on either. I'm using the "Special Guard" model for both.
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1967 Holton Al Hirt Special
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UsedBits · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 8:47 am Post subject:

Of course valve guards will do more damage. They're a 'constant' wear where they touch the casing. Even in the case, the valve guard is still imparting wear on the casing. In addition, one must strap them on tightly, much more so than simply holding the horn. Lastly, I suspect that even the finest leather is 'harder' than the skin of one's hand.

To best protect one's horn, hold it with a cotton cloth, especially for those having the 'high acid' skin problem.

By the way, these guards serve one and only one purpose - to fatten the wallets of those who sell them.
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riffdawg2000 · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:54 am Post subject:

Uh ....<raising hand> ... I beg to differ ...

The Leather Specialties valve guards are outstanding. They are three layers. 1) outer leather, moisture barrier, then velvet against the valve casting & slides (SUPER soft). The 'Special' models have 'flaps' that protect the wearing parts on the bell and leadpipe.

Now, to each his own. Some think it deadens the vibrations, etc,etc. Personally, I hear or feel no difference in the tone or projection. I personally like the feel of soft leather, than hard,cold brass ..

My 2-cents

fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:25 am Post subject:

That's interesting.. I've never had a problem with the nicer leather valveguards....I wonder if it has anything to do with trumpet brand, finish, etc...?
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MHStrumpet · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:50 am Post subject:

I have been using a valve guard for about two years now and I haven't seen any damage or wear on my old horn. I just put it on my new strad, but I haven't taken the strad to school because I'm on summer vacation right now.

mafields627 · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 10:50 am Post subject:

I ordered a Leather Specialties valve guard recently and was dissappointed in it. Only the outside edges were sewn. The inner edges were left open so I could actually peer inside the layers of the valve guard. The inner membrane is only a thin layer of a cellophane material. I was expecting something a little more substantial. Are all of their valve guards like this, ie., not sewn all the way around?
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No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!

riffdawg2000 · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:06 pm Post subject:

I would call Larry Black and talk to him or his wife about your guard. I am sure it was a QA issue and they'll replace it ...

http://leatherspecialtiesco.com/default.php/cPath/1?osCsid=9af2054949acb88138ff98bede78595b
Leather Specialties Company
726 Everett Rd.
Pisgah Forest, NC 28768-8626
Phone/Fax: 828.884.5907
Cell Phone: 770.490.4125

rafterman · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:44 pm Post subject:

Masfields, my LS guards are sewn all the way through. The inner membrane has two layers - the cellophane-like material and a thin "fishnet" webbing.

Talk to the maker about yours.

I like the leather specialties guards. I've them for both my Bb and flugel.

As for disputes about their worth, well - folks here argue about everything. I think leather guards are a creation of the maker, but others believe them to be the result of natural selection. Perhaps your mis-sewn guards are actually a mutation.

smithwatkinsguy · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:25 pm Post subject:

Ya, when I had my Getzen Renaissance heavy wall model the valve guard I had made the plating discolor. Also, I've heard that Getzens aren't really great on their silver plating - the silver plating on that horn was getting air bubbles!
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maynard-46 · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:26 am Post subject:

mafields627
I have 5-6 of these handguards. I looked at them yeaterday and I, too, have one that is exactly like you described yours as being...sewn on the outside...but not on the inside seams! The rest of them are sewn around the complete circumference. It's got to simply be a mistake. I'm alsmost positive Larry and Rita would replace it if you contacted them. (I think mine's alittle too old for me to complain about it now!!!) Good luck.

Butch
_________________
TRUMPE: YAMAHA Lacq. "Shew Gen II" / Legends .585 "CatMaster" Top / KT "TKO" BB / Reeves #5.75 Sleeve.
FLUGELHORN: ADAMS Custom "F1" / Legends .585 "CatMaster FL.

mafields627 · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 6:02 am Post subject:

Thanks for letting me know about that. I figured it wasn't right. I'll contact them Monday.

Matt
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No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!

rafterman · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 12:37 pm Post subject:

Usedbits, your comment about leatherguards having only one purpose - fattening the wallets of their makers and sellers - is a little harsh.

Rita Black sent me a short message about the problem. I hope she doesn't mind my posting it. Personally, I hope it helps set right perceptions of their small business. I'd hate to see someone's livlihood be hurt. Of course, everyone has personal preferences, but I don't think there is anything bogus about these guards.

......................................

Thanks for the heads up. I responded to Matt on the Trumpet Herald and
assured him that his "basic" guard was properly sewn and that the cellophane
was more than adequate for the purposes of the guard. We leave the interior
of the basic guard unsewn to facilitate a good conformation of the leather
to the player and the instrument. The larger guards with extra curves and
flaps get sewn on the perimeter only because they require more stability.
The cellophane is thin to keep down the bulk of the guard.

A note, too, about some players feeling the resonance is compromised. That
is very possible and some players, including my husband, will use a guard
for daily practise and remove it for performances. Some instruments, he
leaves the guard on constantly. Each individual must determine what is best
for his set up.

maynard-46 · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 1:55 pm Post subject:

According to Rita my one guard (a basic), that I thought was made wrong, is the way it's supposed to be. I've dealt with both Larry and Rita on different occasions and they are BOTH class individuals! In fact...they are two of the nicest people in the music business that one could possibly hope to deal with.

Butch Warnke
_________________
TRUMPE: YAMAHA Lacq. "Shew Gen II" / Legends .585 "CatMaster" Top / KT "TKO" BB / Reeves #5.75 Sleeve.
FLUGELHORN: ADAMS Custom "F1" / Legends .585 "CatMaster FL.

Mr.Hollywood · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2002 Posts: 1730

you guys will all thank me for this if you try it.

I have so much acid in my hands that I can go through a new silver plate in a coulpe of months.

Then one day a repair friend of mine told me to put "Sally Hansons hard as nails" "Silver Frost" color nail polish all around the casings.

I had just bought a new B5, and decided to try it. Take the bottle and empty it into a small cup, and use a medium artists paint brush to put it on. Put on a good two coats, then let it dry overnite on a trumpet stand.

I played that B5 for over 5 years, when I put it up for sale, it took over an hour with nail polish remover to get all the stuff off, but I swear that horn looked like the day I bought it.

The "Silver Frost" color kind of matches the silver plating, and once you put it on it will never come off until you take it off. You can wash the horn in hot water and everything. You just put it on, and forget about it.

Of course if goes without saying that you can only use this on a plated instrument (not laquer)

I've done it to every silver horn I've had since.

Chris

rank_amateur · Veteran Member Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 483

> Of course if goes without saying that you can only use
> this on a plated instrument (not laquer)

Actually, you can do something _similar_ on a laquered horn:

If you have a laquered horn that is missing laquer in some spots, applying _clear_ nail polish to those spots will help prevent the wear from spreading as well as prevent brass tarnish on the areas where the laquer is already gone.

The difference here is that, once you do this you can't take it off unless you remove the laquer as well.

Thanks to the fellow TH'er who gave me this tip whose name escapes me right now.

Washington BC · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 4:52 pm Post subject:

Rita emailed me too about that "problem". She expained and also offered to fix it if I decided to do that. The only company that gives me that much customer service is Monette.

BC

ARB · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 11:41 am Post subject:

Please excuse my initial post; I have now realized that the guard merely concealed a slight tarnish buildup around the valves and slides. I thought the edges of the guards had worn through the silver from constant movement when playing, but after a good polishing it all came off.

I didn’t want anyone to have negative feelings about these valve covers, they are very very nice.

Sorry for the negative post, I’m a bit over protective of my horns and just wanted to set this straight.
_________________
Allen - 'Chops-in-Hotlanta'

00 Schilke S22
77 LA Benge 5X
63 Burbank Benge C

"It's what we think we know that keeps us from knowing"