Which is THE Couesnon flugel?

Cadenza · Veteran Member Joined: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 243

Inspired by another current thread ("Unusual Couesnon flugel"), I wanted to ask which Couesnon model is THE archetypical, wonderful, granddaddy rich-sounding Couesnon flugelhorn?

As the OP of the other thread, markp, so succinctly summarizes, "Why are all these damn Couesnons such a puzzle?" We've all heard about the "Queenie's" buttery rich tone, but I've never been able to figure out which of the models this refers to.

Thought I would ask.

fraserhutch · Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:44 pm Post subject:

Flip Oakes Wild Thing.
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homebilly · Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:23 pm Post subject:

hi cadenza

i have a couesnon that i bought at Zeps in hollywood back in 1978 or so. i was just a student so i didn't really know what i was buying. i have had it all of these years but never liked it for the ****ty valves. as a result i hadn't touched it in about 10 years. SO, i was getting my trumpet valves aligned at Reeves and i took the flugel with me to ask Bob some questions about the valves. i wanted to know if an alignment would help. he thought it was the plastic guides causing the problem and suggested that i drop by the factory as i am in Paris quite a bit. so i did.

i took my horn out to the factory to get some guides. instead i got a 4 hour tour of the factory, a history of the company and i got so see some horns being made. from valve blocks to bell making to assembly to spraying the lacquer on the polished brass.

so to get to your question...... the horn that i have is the student model. we know that from the 2 piece bell instead of the pro 1 piece bell. you can see the knuckle on the bottom that tells you that it is in two pieces. they told me that the horns are identical save for the bells.

it turns out that my horn was made sometime in the very early '70s.
........back to my happy ending. SO, the husband of the daughter of the boss is the valve maker. he gave my horn a good look and said that it wasn't the guides but the valve casings themselves. they hadn't been thoroughly finished at the time of manufacture. there were still rough spots where the guides ride along and that THAT is what was causing the valves to hang. so he basically did the final step in valve preparation that was missed back in 1972 and now the student horn KILLS!!! the valves just FLY. they didn't even charge me for the work. now that is a guarantee
if i have ever seen one!!! i also decided to get the new valve caps and felts to give the horn a bit of an update and to celebrate its return to action.

so basically any couesnon that you can get should have that buttery sound that you are describing. mine does. they also told me that the finn on the back side of the bell is not a standard thing these days but was many years ago. they are a wonderful company!!

so if you can get your hands on one get it and you'll be happy that you did.

ron
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Crazy Finn · Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject:

Fun story!
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delano · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:32 am Post subject:

The Hub van Laar flugels are nowadays the real Cuesnon flugels.
I have no knowledge of the American flugelscene but the Van Laar region is really flugelcountry, dotted with villages with some kind of developed brassbandthing, (Adams is in the same area).
Everybody seems to play the flugel there:

http://www.vanlaartrumpets.nl/content/en/175/brabants-fanfare-orchestra

The website of HvL is not updated, there is even a whole new range of R-flugels, for the rest:

http://www.vanlaartrumpets.nl/content/en/3/flugelhorns

I am saving money for a B1, even thinks of selling my great 40ties 36A and 80A for it.

GordonH · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:37 am Post subject:

Cuesnon Still exist.
They still make flugels and cornets, including a four valve flugel:

http://www.pgm-couesnon.com/catalogueproduits.php

The french word for flugel is "bugle" so look in the bugle section.
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Cadenza · Veteran Member Joined: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 243

Thanks for ideas to date.

There seems to be many Couesnon models available, from older to newer, so it's really very difficult to sort out which ones could be wheat and which could be chaff!

Any specific experience or suggestions -- good, bad or otherwise -- with respect to specific models?

delano · Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:28 am Post subject:

OP: The Monopole

mpo · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 577

In my opinion some of the best Couesnon flugel's are the one from the late 60's and early 70's.

These have the finger ring that looks like a "C" as well as a big "C" in the engraving. Most of the pro's from that period who used Couesnon's used this model. Some had good build quality while others didn't, regardless, they all have THE French sound.

I personally think the Monopole has a bit of hype associated to it.

rwflyboy · Regular Member Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 13

I just picked up a Silver Couesnon Flugelhorn and had it chem cleaned and a basic repair for the 3rd valve/slide trigger. For a 100 bucks it is a beauty of a horn and I now have a Blessing 154t lacquered with double case for sale if anyone is looking.

The horn plays very well and I love the sound. I believe it is a smaller bore, yet sounds very full. Wished they had records to know when this one was made as it is a Monopole Star model that a lady pulled out of the attic saying it had been in the family for some time. What an awesome find for me!
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tom turner · Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject:

Cadenza · Veteran Member Joined: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 243

Great! Any chance of some pictures from you folks with horns that you like?

If so, many thanks!

RandyTX · Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:20 am Post subject:

stevesf · Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:55 am Post subject:

Bobby Shew sure sounded great on his "queenie" in the 70's and 80's.
(goes without saying I guess

)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaF_DvJG6zY[/code]

rwflyboy · Regular Member Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 13

mpo · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 577

RandyTX · Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:39 am Post subject:

You would consider .421 bore to be "large"? Interesting, although I don't agree. Especially given that Kanstul makes a .453 bore flugel as well. It seems to lie more "in the middle" of many of the flugels out there, and smaller than some of the Yamaha models as well, not on the large end, imo.
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mpo · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 577

Jon Arnold · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2030

MPO,

Thanks for giving me a good deal on the Couesnon. I am still playing it and love the sound!

mpo · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 577