Kanstul 1500

[ohiotpt]

[tubamuirum]

Having owned a 1500 for many years as well as Bachs, and having more recently played on Benges, I'd say that the horn is its own beast but roughly speaking draws on something from Bach at either end, and Benge in the middle!

[JetJaguar]

The "M" nickname for the 1500 might indicate "mystery", since it is not known what horn the mandrel was originally made for.

[KanstulBrass]

"M" was obviously a short-lived nickname. Actually, I'd never even heard of it until Tim mentioned it here on this thread, and no one at the factory uses the term at all. Tim was here when Hal requested that Zig make a bell from this mandrel, and Tim introduced the horn for us at NAMM, so he would certainly know better than I would.

The Model 1500 (formerly known as the ZKT 1500, and sometimes referred to as the "Hal" horn) is the first Signature model, and was used by many players in LA including the legendary Ollie Mitchell. Today, it's used by Dr. Mike Tunnell and Chuck MacKinnon among others, and remains one of our more popular models.
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Charles G Hargett
Brass Industry Consultant

(Kanstul, Shires, BAC, Benge)

[oliver king]

This is MY ZKT1500. There are many like it but this one makes MY thing happen.
I've replaced the leadpipe and had the bell gold plated over the years. I recently sent it back to Kanstul to have the 1st valve slide ring replaced with a saddle and the 3rd valve slide replaced with a larger ring. While they had it, they maintenanced the valves and slides, rebuilt the amado water keys. It's was great playing horn when I shipped it to Kanstul. It's come back even better.
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[JetJaguar]

[Trptbenge]

Besides being an extremely skilled horn maker Zig is an excellent businessman. He is going to produce horns that sell and fit a need in the market. The 1500 is a pretty unique horn. the copper bell gives a warm, rich tone that projects extremely well. No wonder it has been a popular horn.

Much of Kanstuls business in the pro-line horns has been building horns based on successful models by Bach, Benge and Calicchio. Of course, they have made horns for a lot of other companies under the other companies name. These included: the French Besson line, The Wild Thing, Callet model horns and others. Zig has a lot of expertise making a wide variety horns. There is probably no other horn manufacturer today with as much experience as Zig Kanstul. They make some great horns.

Mike
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It's the sound that makes the difference!

[trpthrld]

[KanstulBrass]

[JetJaguar]

[rufflicks]

So I used to own a Hal that was what was stamped on the back of the 2nd valve slide. I thought I was the only one that had that on a Zig horn but, I saw one in Vegas 2 weeks ago. Now did that horn not become the 1500 A. This is my memory of progression from 20 years ago.
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[KanstulBrass]

The 1500-A evolved from the 1500.

The ZKT 1500 had a great sound and was very popular, but players found that they were having difficulty being heard over a large ensemble, so some changes were made. A heavy mouthpiece receiver was added, along with a weighted tuning slide. Later, heavy bottom caps were added. Along the way, the bell material was changed from copper to bronze and lastly, a weighted brace was added at the bell bend.
_________________
Charles G Hargett
Brass Industry Consultant

(Kanstul, Shires, BAC, Benge)

[mythopoeic]

[trpthrld]

[PiCK Kanstul]

[nashbop63]

RNJ - I'm the owner of the 1500B currently for sale in the TH marketplace. Although it does have a bell that seems similar to a Bach lightweight, I certainly wouldn't characterize it as "ultra lightweight" in general. I'm sure Charles from Kanstul could speak to this, but to me the horn doesn't feel like an overall lightweight instrument. George Tidwell

[MarkZ]

[KanstulBrass]

[Capt.Kirk]

I would never call the 1500's a Bach Clone except for the 1537. Even the models with Bach bell profiles and leadpipes do not typically play or sound like their Bach counter parts. I would especially say this is true of the 1500, 1503 and 1504 the 1500 has a 7 bell and it is not a Bach 7 bell either and 1503 and 1504 do not sound or feel like a Bach 180 with 72 bell's because bracing is different as is the valve assembly. When has Bach offered the 72 bell with 43 pipe as a standard out the door to dealer items last I checked you had to special order it and you almost never ever find a Bach 180 72 in a show room with anything other then that silly restrictive 25 pipe attached to it! I would probably wet myself if I ever went into a brick and motar store and they actually had a silver standard weight Back 180 with a 72 bell with either the 7 pipe or 43 pipe on it on a new horn and hanging on the wall! LOL

Also when was the last time you could order anything like the 1500-A from Bach even as a custom item let alone off the shelf? So I think calling the 1500 line generically Bach Clones is not a good choice. I have no problem with the word clones and Kanstul even if they do not like it because if the shoe fits...... They do have a lot of Clearly Cloned models and they do have bell profiles and leadpipe profiles that are cloned. I do not think Kanstul has any bell profiles or leadpipe profiles that are entirely of their own design they are all borrowed or cloned from Conn, Benge, Olds, Bach or other peoples designs. In some case's they are not clones but the actually tooling from those companies like Benge and Olds mandrels and such.

Saying a product is a clone does not deminish how hard they had to work to reverse engineer a product. It does not deminish their skill as crafts men. It does not deminish their ability as mass producers of fine horns it just means that their products are not entirely of their own design. Selmer current Bach Strads are not real Strad's they are clones of the originals products and do not look, feel or play like the originals every mandrel they have has had to have been replaced because number one they do not last forever and number two if you only have one 37 mandrel for instance you can only h ave one guy at a time making them especially all the lathe functions if you have more then one you can have more then one lathe going and more then one guy doing lathe work on 37 bells so more bells can be built at any given time. On top of that the process has been changed and streamlined over the years according to those that have worked at Bach or takenthe tour more then once over the years as things have changed. So even Slemer produced modern Bach Strad's in my book deserve the use of the word CLone when compared to those 160 Strads that where built while Vincent still owned the company compared to what is sold today. Valve materials have changed, the radius of the crooks has changed, the length of the leadpipe and first valve slide have changed, the general use of intonation aids has changed, the bell bow radius has changed many times over the year's and the tuning slide radius has changed many times over the years and the shape of the main tuning slide.....

I am fat and I know it I do not get upset if some says I am fat because it is true. If some one get's upset over being told the truth and the obvious their problem is their own assuming people are being polite when telling th person the obvious and not being mean about it. The solution is not using PC terms rather it is to get off ones duff and do something totally original like Conn was once well known for! I am not doing anything new I am useing Bach bell profiles and leadpipe profiles and heavy braces. That has been done before I am not going to get upset if someone points that out. I do not claim to be doing anything that is original I give full credit to Jasson Harrelson and Dave Monette as my main inspirations and I am trying to copy them. I am limited to the profiles that I can purchase because I do not have the means to make my own yet. Their is no reason in this earth for Kanstul, Bach,Conn etc.....not to be developing their own totally new and inovative bell profiles, leadpipe profiles and the like. They have the money and the knowledge but they lack ambition, motivation, drive and desire to blaze new trails! Anyone can reshuffle existing parts and vary the weight a tad here and their but that does not really make anything new or innovative. I have no idea why all the large OEM's are afraid to do new things especially when sales are down! It is almost comical to me that no one has decided to copy Monette, Harrelson, Taylor or Flip Oaks designs!!! No one has a true copy and I do not mean cosmetic copy either I mean true reverse engineered copy of these guy's product's. If they do copy one it is no good unless the price is not insanely high......No one is doing an affordable 4 valve extended range Bb either only high end over priced low volume companies seem to do anything innovative. No one accuses Jasson,Dave,Eclipse or Taylor of making Clones and their is a reason for that.
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[Bruin]