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invisiblehand
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Joined: 14 Feb 2018
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Location: Washington DC
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 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:36 am Post subject: CB pocket trumpet (or alternative) tuning slides useable? |
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Based on past posts, I'm eyeing the Carol Brass CPT-3000 horns which have 1st and 3rd valve tuning slides operated with thumbs. Aside from using your thumbs instead of say the 4th finger for the 3rd valve slide, are the slides functional? For instance, I don't find student horn third valve slides functional because of stickiness.
In case someone is wondering why I'm interested. I travel a bit and need to do a lot of errands with my teenagers; it would be nice to have a convenient horn to play. But occasionally I tweak my shoulder and it occurred to me that holding something closer to the body would be easier. Any comments on this would be welcome too.
Thanks for reading.
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gillie89
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Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 737
Location: Lebanon, PA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Yes, the slides on mine are definitely functional. A bit awkward to operate but they move just fine. I use mine as a travel/vacation horn but it is certainly good enough to use in other applications. Great valves, good intonation and it also accepts all my mutes. It’s a lot of bang for the buck.
I had adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) and after a PT worked it back to almost normal, he said to keep my elbows in close to my body especially when carrying things. I think you may be on to something with the pocket trumpet and keeping your arms close to your body.
I hope things work out for you.
Peace and all Good,
Gillie89 |
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JonathanM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
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Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Welcome back to playing! 
I’ve used the CB pocket trumpet for several years; it’s the best pocket trumpet I’ve found. And I find both slides to work fine for me, both the 3 and 1 slide, although it does take some getting used to. The 1st slide won’t pull much without moving the third slide, but it is enough for my fine tuning needs; I use my left thumb to operate both slides.
As an added bonus, they are TOUGH little horns too. I’ve carried mine in a suitcase for years, dropped it badly once, and it (like the Energizer Bunny) just keeps on going.
Also, I think you’re quite right; with the weight close to the chest, the weight of this horn should prove quite easy on a bad shoulder.
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Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
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Subtropical and Subpar
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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I will note that Carolbrass makes a pocket trumpet with an entirely different wrap under its Manchester Brass moniker; they are sold through Austin Custom Brass and Trent has at least one or two videos on Youtube comparing them. So if the Carolbrass wrap / slide placement seems like it might be uncomfortable, look into their Manchester Brass model.
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1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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I've only seen/heard a few pockets that played and sounded good. Be mindful with any horn you try. If the pocket doesn't work out would a cornet provide some similar benefit?
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Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
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cgaiii
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Joined: 26 Jun 2017
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I have a Manchester Brass pocket from Austin Custom Brass. It has a functional thumb operated slide for the first valve and it works well with the 1-3 combination. Distance seems short, but it works.
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Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
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invisiblehand
Regular Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2018
Posts: 53
Location: Washington DC
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| gillie89 wrote: | Yes, the slides on mine are definitely functional. A bit awkward to operate but they move just fine. I use mine as a travel/vacation horn but it is certainly good enough to use in other applications. Great valves, good intonation and it also accepts all my mutes. It’s a lot of bang for the buck.
I had adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) and after a PT worked it back to almost normal, he said to keep my elbows in close to my body especially when carrying things. I think you may be on to something with the pocket trumpet and keeping your arms close to your body.
I hope things work out for you. |
Thanks! That's what I wanted to hear. At the moment, it's not terrible. But it seems to me that making an adjustment now could stop a bigger problem from forming.
| JonathanM wrote: | Welcome back to playing!
I’ve used the CB pocket trumpet for several years; it’s the best pocket trumpet I’ve found. And I find both slides to work fine for me, both the 3 and 1 slide, although it does take some getting used to. The 1st slide won’t pull much without moving the third slide, but it is enough for my fine tuning needs; I use my left thumb to operate both slides. |
It's been great playing again. My son and I have been taking lessons for 5 years now. Interesting blip on using the left thumb for both slides. Not what I expected.
| Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | | I will note that Carolbrass makes a pocket trumpet with an entirely different wrap under its Manchester Brass moniker; they are sold through Austin Custom Brass and Trent has at least one or two videos on Youtube comparing them. So if the Carolbrass wrap / slide placement seems like it might be uncomfortable, look into their Manchester Brass model. |
| cgaiii wrote: | | I have a Manchester Brass pocket from Austin Custom Brass. It has a functional thumb operated slide for the first valve and it works well with the 1-3 combination. Distance seems short, but it works. |
Ahhhh. That's helpful to know. Is their sound comparable? Off the top of my head, only have a 1st valve slide wouldn't be that bad. It looks like they are considerably less expensive too.
| cheiden wrote: | | I've only seen/heard a few pockets that played and sounded good. Be mindful with any horn you try. If the pocket doesn't work out would a cornet provide some similar benefit? |
A cornet is something that didn't cross my mind. Now that you suggest it, I do remember some kids when my son was young using them instead for the shorter distance. Although memory says I would need to get another mouthpiece because the shank is different.
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cgaiii
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| invisiblehand wrote: |
| cgaiii wrote: | | I have a Manchester Brass pocket from Austin Custom Brass. It has a functional thumb operated slide for the first valve and it works well with the 1-3 combination. Distance seems short, but it works. |
Ahhhh. That's helpful to know. Is their sound comparable? Off the top of my head, only have a 1st valve slide wouldn't be that bad. It looks like they are considerably less expensive too.
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The Manchester Brass pocket is made by the Carol Brass people with Trent Austin's input. It plays well, in tune and blows very easily. Perhaps a bit cornet like. At least one of the guys at ACB uses it as his travel horn. That is what I use mine for. When I am traveling for business or pleasure, I take it to keep in shape. It is actually quite a lot of fun to play and sounds fine. If I had to, I would take it on stage. It is not a Schilke by a long shot, but it is a very serviceable horn for what I use it for. Mine has been on every continent except Antarctica and is still in great shape. I've jammed with it, etc., and never had a problem with the sound.
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Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
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TrumpetMD
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: CB pocket trumpet (or alternative) tuning slides useable |
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| invisiblehand wrote: | | Based on past posts, I'm eyeing the Carol Brass CPT-3000 horns .... |
I purchased a Carol Brass CPT-3000 Pocket Trumpet not long after I started playing again, about 12 years ago. It's a good horn, full-sized bell, adjustable 1st and 3rd valve slides.
I use it regularly to practice at work and on vacation. Mine has taken a lot of abuse over the last 10 years, but has held up well.
Also, I see we're both in the DC area. If you play jazz and are looking for open jam sessions, I run two of them in the DC/Maryland area, one in Greenbelt and the other in Ellicott City.
Mike
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Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
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Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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invisiblehand
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Posts: 53
Location: Washington DC
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:22 am Post subject: Re: CB pocket trumpet (or alternative) tuning slides useable |
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| TrumpetMD wrote: | I purchased a Carol Brass CPT-3000 Pocket Trumpet not long after I started playing again, about 12 years ago. It's a good horn, full-sized bell, adjustable 1st and 3rd valve slides.
I use it regularly to practice at work and on vacation. Mine has taken a lot of abuse over the last 10 years, but has held up well.
Also, I see we're both in the DC area. If you play jazz and are looking for open jam sessions, I run two of them in the DC/Maryland area, one in Greenbelt and the other in Ellicott City.
Mike |
Cool! I'm across the Potomac in Arlington. I play with the community orchestra here. I love jazz but (1) lack the skills and (2) teenagers have me very occupied for the next few years. I know that the Levine School has some jazz classes. I'll have to keep my eyes open for something convenient.
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delano
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:17 am Post subject: |
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The building quality of the CB 3000 pocket is excellent, also the slides.
On this forum there were a lot of posts that these horns play like full grown trumpets but that is not really true, they play well but that’s it.
The sound is certainly ok but they are typical pockets: they play more like cornets with a trumpet receiver.
And you will have to experiment with mouthpieces, these horns are on the bright side, with a shallow trumpet mp they can sound very shrill and the playability can suffer. In fact they play easier with a cornet or flügel mp with an adapter.
I have also good results with deeper trumpet mp’s like the Yamaha 14D4.
Further, I don’t think the CB pockets are available at the moment, maybe some shops have a stock, I bought the last one from Thomann quite some time ago. |
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Andy Cooper
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Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:38 am Post subject: Re: CB pocket trumpet (or alternative) tuning slides useable |
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| invisiblehand wrote: | .
...But occasionally I tweak my shoulder and it occurred to me that holding something closer to the body would be easier. Any comments on this would be welcome too. ...
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You should have what you want. However, if the object is just to get the valve cluster closer to your body, there may not be much difference between a pocket trumpet and a shephard's crook cornet considering the difference in length from mouthpiece rim to 1st valve with a trumpet mouthpiece vs. rim to 1st valve with a short shank cornet mouthpiece.
A used student shephards crook would be easy to find for $200 or so. It's not hard to get the 3rd slide to move well. |
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invisiblehand
Regular Member
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Posts: 53
Location: Washington DC
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | And you will have to experiment with mouthpieces, these horns are on the bright side, with a shallow trumpet mp they can sound very shrill and the playability can suffer. In fact they play easier with a cornet or flügel mp with an adapter.
I have also good results with deeper trumpet mp’s like the Yamaha 14D4.
Further, I don’t think the CB pockets are available at the moment, maybe some shops have a stock, I bought the last one from Thomann quite some time ago. |
Interesting. I use Bach Artisan 1 1/2C and 3C mouthpieces at the moment. As I understand it, neither super deep nor shallow.
Some folks have them in stock. From memory, some Carol Brass group in Colorado, Horntrader, among others. WedgeMouthpieces says it will take about 4 weeks to get them ... this is the best price I see out there. Carol Brass also seems to seem horns directly on Amazon.
Any thoughts on a "light" versus "standard" bell on these horns? (I see some loooong threads on TrumpetHerald about the question with respect to trumpets)
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Subtropical and Subpar
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Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 627
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | The building quality of the CB 3000 pocket is excellent, also the slides.
On this forum there were a lot of posts that these horns play like full grown trumpets but that is not really true, they play well but that’s it.
The sound is certainly ok but they are typical pockets: they play more like cornets with a trumpet receiver.
And you will have to experiment with mouthpieces, these horns are on the bright side, with a shallow trumpet mp they can sound very shrill and the playability can suffer. In fact they play easier with a cornet or flügel mp with an adapter.
I have also good results with deeper trumpet mp’s like the Yamaha 14D4.
Further, I don’t think the CB pockets are available at the moment, maybe some shops have a stock, I bought the last one from Thomann quite some time ago. |
One just got posted in the TH marketplace (I am not the seller).
_________________
1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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Subtropical and Subpar
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Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 627
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| invisiblehand wrote: | | delano wrote: | And you will have to experiment with mouthpieces, these horns are on the bright side, with a shallow trumpet mp they can sound very shrill and the playability can suffer. In fact they play easier with a cornet or flügel mp with an adapter.
I have also good results with deeper trumpet mp’s like the Yamaha 14D4.
Further, I don’t think the CB pockets are available at the moment, maybe some shops have a stock, I bought the last one from Thomann quite some time ago. |
Interesting. I use Bach Artisan 1 1/2C and 3C mouthpieces at the moment. As I understand it, neither super deep nor shallow.
Some folks have them in stock. From memory, some Carol Brass group in Colorado, Horntrader, among others. WedgeMouthpieces says it will take about 4 weeks to get them ... this is the best price I see out there. Carol Brass also seems to seem horns directly on Amazon.
Any thoughts on a "light" versus "standard" bell on these horns? (I see some loooong threads on TrumpetHerald about the question with respect to trumpets) |
Carol does have a store on Amazon but it is pretty sparse. I think all I saw last time was their slide trumpet and maybe the mini-pocket trumpet - the really tiny one. A year or two ago they had some of the gold brass bell 3000-series pocket trumpets, and at a very good price, but that store doesn't seem to restock often.
_________________
1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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delano
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Never heard about different bells on these pockets. |
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Shawnino
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Carol will do different bells. Got mine in red brass.
Different Carol dealers have different appetite to let their customers customise. I'm buying a 4440 from this guy at present after the dealer who sold me my pocket shut up shop:
https://carolcustombrass.co.uk/product/carolbrass-cpt-3000-gls-pocket-trumpet/
This one offers sizes and gold/yellow brass but it never hurts to ask if you want something else. |
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invisiblehand
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Just bought one from WedgeMouthpieces. Will report back.
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