New Benge To Replace Old Besson?

valvepimp · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 9:25 pm Post subject:

Currently the only Bb trumpet I own is a French Besson Brevette. It is a great horn. It was chosen for me by Mel Broiles in 1975. He was my teacher, then, and he called me up and said Manny's (on West 48th Street in NYC) has several used French Bessons for sale, some in near-mint condition, wanna join me to pick one out? I said sure, and jumped on the subway and met Mel within about 20 minutes. We tried them all between us, there were 5 as I recall. Mel chose as his a silver plated minty one, and I chose a lacquer one in decent, but far from mint condition. He had blown mine before I did, and pronounced it the most responsive horn of all we had tried. But he wanted a silver plated one in better condition, and went with the one he regarded as the #2 best playing Besson they had. He owned lots of trumpets, as you can imagine, and was always looking for new ones. So to him, it didn't matter that he was steering his student to the better horn. I was very appreciative, because he could have taken first dibs, the used Besson lot was his discovery, after all. He payed $200 for his, and I payed $125 for mine. A couple months later, I brought my Besson to Giardinelli for a complete overhaul and silver plating, and the installation of a first slide tuning mechanism and thumbrest. That cost all of $75. What I had after the work was done was a brand new horn that played great, and had Mel Broiles' personal seal of approval. All for a total of $200. 1970s trumpet prices *sigh*.

Anyway, the point of this longwinded intro, is to let you know that while my Besson still blows great, it has not been worked on since the 1975 overhaul, so it looks in rough shape. Darkened, near black areas around the valve guard, and the pinky rest has fallen clean off. (Have that pinky rest somewhere, must have it put back on one of these days). If any of you have read my initial posting in the Fundamentals section, you will know I am attempting a comeback after many years of dormancy. I was thinking that a new horn may be just the ticket to stimulate my interest in a meaningful practice routine. I was thinking of getting a Benge. Never owned a Benge, but have played and borrowed many belonging to friends. I really liked them. Here is the all important question: Do they still make them? If so, what could I expect to pay for a brand new one in Bb? If not, what could I expect to pay for a used one in great condition? How is Benge regarded by legit players in 2003? I have been out of the loop so long, I have scarcely even heard of all these new manufacturers. Thank you all for bearing with my ignorance. I hope to re-aquaint myself with trumpet lore as I slowly develop my embouchure once again.

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

[ This Message was edited by: dbacon on 2003-09-26 19:22 ]

valvepimp · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 9:46 pm Post subject:

Thanks for your prompt reply. Is the Kanstul a modern recreation of a Benge, or did he license the Benge name and does it say Benge on it? Is the original Benge still being made today? I am browsing the Kanstul site as we speak.

camelbrass · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:40 am Post subject:

UMI who make King and Conn now own the Benge name and still produce 'Benge' horns. Zig Kanstul used to run the Benge factory during the early 70s and has recreated the feel of the old Benges with his 'Burbank' and 'Chicago' lines. To be fair I have not played a UMI Benge but there are somewhat mixed opinions on them.

What I can say is that I have played several old Benges and currently own a Kanstul Chicago 464 bore and if you're after a 'new' Benge then I recommend it.

Regards

Trevor

camelbrass · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:42 am Post subject:

And no it doesn't say 'Benge' on it but has 'Chicago' on the bell.

Regards

Trevor

pushyred · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:27 am Post subject:

Hey VP, welcome ! If you're looking for a new horn that plays like an old Benge the Kanstul Chicago is probably the best your going to do.

On the other hand, it sounds like you have a priceless old Besson that with a little TLC and maybe a valve job, would be the Cat's Meow! Why not spend the cash and have that beauty restored? I didn't see anything in your post about the condition of the inside of the horn. If its in decent shape inside, the cosmetics can be fixed easily.

Good luck and happy practicing

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

[ This Message was edited by: dbacon on 2003-09-26 19:23 ]

gzent · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:52 am Post subject:

You could probably get the horn overhauled with a valve alignment and gold
plated for less than the cost of a new horn.

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

[ This Message was edited by: dbacon on 2003-09-26 19:24 ]

Batmann · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Dec 2002 Posts: 112

Dave,

It seems you have more questions than answers.

gzent · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:20 am Post subject:

I have heard of shops that actually fabricate their own parts if need be.
One that always comes to mind is Dan Oberloh (http://www.oberloh.com/).
They claim to make ANY horn better than new.

Greg

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

[ This Message was edited by: dbacon on 2003-09-26 19:23 ]

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

I have had three horns with loose, sloppy, worn valves refitted/replated by Anderson. The price for an individual is about $240...about a year back. I was VERY happy...perfect fit and smooth action...no problem and I'm about to send them another horn to do. kpb

bophead · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:38 pm Post subject:

I'd send the horn in to Kanstul and have them overhaul it. Who better to work on it than the guy who probably made it? I've read a post here somewhere that someone who toured the Kanstul Factory saw other horns there being worked on.

tommytuba · Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 2:51 pm Post subject:

Hey guys: It's great to hear someone else has a vintage Brevette. I picked mine up back in the early 70's, I was studying with Roy Stevens at that time and hanging with cats like Lloyd Michaels, Billy Moriarity and Roy Roman. The horn cost me all of $250. + $50. add on for silver plate job. I used it for a number of years then put it aside, actually I knocked the crap out of that horn as I fell off the stage one night with my ususal load on. When I woke up my axe was mangled and twisted beyond belief. I was too ashamed to show it to anyone so I just threw it in the back of the closet and that's where it stayed until 1996. I was encouraged by an old friend to take the horn in for repairs and to my surprise it came our just great. The years have taken their toll on the horn: I went in to see Chuck McAlexander in NYC earlier this week. The horn needs work once again, a new lead-pipe, valve job, etc, probable cost of around $500. At first I thought I woiuld go over to Dillons In New Jersey and arrange a trade in, but on second thought I'll take it down to Chuck tomorrow and have him do the work. I think what made me decide to keep my Besson had somethig to do with a rehearsal I left only hours ago plus recall the horns I tried out at the recent NYC Brass Conf., all great but nothing like my Besson. Keep it, Don't let it out of your sight.

bulos · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 4:59 am Post subject:

valvepimp what is the serial# of your Besson ?
_________________
Marquis de Sade: "In art, one has to kill one's father."

bulos · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 10:32 am Post subject:

I am playing a 1935-ish Brevette (see it on my site) it is a nice blow: very easy response and for such a light horn with a small bell it gets a real vibrant rich sound. It's no wonder the old Bessons, the ones made by the Besson family, were copied by everyone else.
_________________
Marquis de Sade: "In art, one has to kill one's father."

tomsak · Regular Member Joined: 31 Mar 2002 Posts: 40

Bulos,
What is the serial number of your horn?