Is this a problem?

Bionx · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:58 am Post subject: Is this a problem?

Hello people..

I've been using my Yamaha Bb Xeno NY for more than a year. I've recently noticed, or i didn't bother to take notice in the past, that my 3rd tuning slide slides all the way till the nut stops it from sliding every time i place my trumpet vertically upright, such as putting my horn into a K&M stand.

Is it normal or is there something wrong with the pressure in the horn? In the past, the 3rd slide dropped off the horn for about 4-5 times whenever I placed it into a K&M stand and when the nut isn't screwed it fully.

I'm starting to get a little concerned 'cos if this carries on, my 3rd slide is gonna have dents very soon..
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LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:35 am Post subject:

Have you tried a different brand of trumpet stands?

Seriously, yes, your third valve either doesn't have top compression or it is vented. But if you cannot detect any playing issues then it probably isn't worth worrying about.

As for denting due to the nuts being loose or missing, every time you take your trumpet out of the case you should grab your nuts and give them a good twist. After my son lost a couple of nuts in middle school, I used just a touch of the easiest locktite on the outer nut. This solved the problem, which ensuring they could be removed for cleaning.

Retlaw · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:57 am Post subject:

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2599

This is an issue of reduced compression in the third valve. The only way to increase the compression is to refit the valve. It may be possible to reduce the tendency of the third valve slide to drop by increasing the viscosity of the oil you use to lubricate the slide or by having a tech adjust the slide so that it has a bit more friction (although this is counterproductive to manipulating the slide during playing).

A relative lack of compression in the third valve might have no noticeable effect on the playability of the horn, so this is not necessarily a serious condition requiring refitting the valve. At some point, however, this can become a problem and would need attention to bring the horn back to its optimal playing capability.
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veery715 · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:18 am Post subject:

Bionx,

You mention the slide fell off a few times. Most Xenos have a third valve water key. I would check that before anything else. Even the smallest leak there will allow air to get in and equalize the pressure so the slide can drop.

Remove the slide and plug one end while blowing on the other, and immerse the water key end in a glass of water to check for bubbles. A slight leak at the water key might be relatively undetectable when playing, but will let the slide drop in a stand.
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LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:41 am Post subject:

Bionx · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:46 am Post subject:

veery715 · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:47 am Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:57 am Post subject:

I use a particularly light oil on my 3rd slide and even when it was new the slide would completely extend to the limit of the stop rod when I put it on a stand. I doubt you have anything to worry about, just make sure your stop rod nuts are snug. If you want a little insurance you can buy a tiny rubber o-ring to put on the stop rod threads that'll prevent the nuts (and the slide) from falling off.
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royjohn · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:45 am Post subject: Is this a problem?

I think if your third valve slide is loose enough, the valve itself can be fine and the slide will still slide down when on the stand. This is a minor issue, but it could affect the slotting on those notes with the third valve. I think I would have a tech tighten it up a little and then maybe use that grease recently mentioned somewhere on TH that is used to create a vacuum with ground glass stoppers in labs. Try the grease first, you might not have to monkey with the slide. If it still slides down, have it tightened up a little and it should still work OK for tuning adjustments.
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Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .