Embouchure dystonia

[Mr. Classical Trumpet]

I've done research and I tink I have it. For starters I have cerebal palsy, a muscle condition. The mouthpiece is on the left side of my lip and my lip placement is 80(bottom) 20(top) I also have a sevre overbite. These issues came after my braces came off. Before my braces I had a 60(top)/40(bottom)and a high consistent range. Now, I can still hit high notes (and play them) however sometimes the vibrations of my top lip stops and hence the sound. I've tried going back to the 60/40 before but I tried 6 months and could not produce sound in the staff. What do I do

[Billy B]

See a doctor for diagnosis.
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Bill Bergren

[Wilktone]

See a doctor, do not try to diagnose yourself. Dystonia is something that you will need to see a specialist about.

As I mentioned in your earlier thread, your braces coming off will have an effect on your mouthpiece placement. The very low placement is not necessarily wrong, as long as it fits how you're anatomy is lining up after braces.

In order to give you more specific advice, I'd really need to watch you play. Can you post closeup video or even photographs of your embouchure?

Dave
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wilktone.com

[underdog]

Mr. Classical. I just Private messaged you. Drop me a line when you can.
Thanks.
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[CRoberts8]

"Musicians With Dystonia was founded under the auspices of the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation (DMRF) in 2000 by professional French Horn player Glen Estrin and Steven Frucht, MD, a neurologist at Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center in New York. The group is dedicated to serving the special needs of musicians affected by task-specific focal dystonia, particularly hand and embouchure dystonias."


http://www.dystonia-foundation.org/pages/musicians_with_dystonia/180.php
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Charles Russell Roberts
Trumpet, Gaudete Brass Quintet
www.gaudetebrass.com

[trumpetteacher1]

[Roberts-K]

Focal Dystonia is a breakdown in the link between the muscle receptors and the brain signals. I have multiple friends that have the condition that are string musicians, and they lose power over a couple of fingers. It is often misdiagnosed as carpel tunnel syndrome, a few even went through carpel tunnel surgery before they found out what it really was. It is well known to strike the left hand of concert violinists as well.
I had not heard of it in relation to embouchure's, though I am sure it could trike anything that could tend to be overused. I would bet that it is tied to repetitive motion injury and overuse.
Makes me think we all should be more careful not to push ourselves too hard. I tried to refinish my own hardwood floors because it looked real easy on HGTV, I've got some nice floors now, after 3 months of physical therapy for both shoulders!
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2010 Lawler 25th C7 XL
Lalwer LF-1 Flugel

[Shaft]

http://www.bbtrumpet.com/6hours.html


You may find this helpful...
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🎺

[trumpetera]

http://www.jongorrie.com/focal-dystonia

Contact him! Great guy and player. He can most probably help you!

Good luck, and don't give up!!
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Principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
Bach Mt Vernon 1957 Bb
Bach NY ML 1943 vintage Bb
Very old YTR-6335
Bach/Malone/Lechner C
Malone-Bach 229 C
H.Ganter Bb
Schagerl Wienna (older model) C
Parker Natural

[Pete Anderson]

[John Mohan]

If you live anywhere near the Chicago area, I'd be happy to help you with your playing.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student

[Umyoguy]

You should consult one of our teachers on www.ziplesson.com.

Many of them are top level professionals from some of the top orchestras in the country, and they are sure to be able to see and hear anything that might be a problem over Skype.

I created ZipLesson to help people exactly like you who have questions, yet don't know where to turn.

You can schedule a lesson or consultation in as few as three clicks once you find a teacher.

Good luck,

Jon

[stanton]

I have been struggling with FD for almost 3 years. Focal Dystonia is a heinous condition. No one really knows why it occurs. Most doctors don't know much about it (my son-in-law is a neurologist at Mass General). So if you want to be treated medically you need to go to someone who specializes in FD (others have posted links above).

The short version of overcoming FD is that you have to retrain everything from the ground up. There is no real medical treatment. Hopefully the onset of the condition is the extent of what it will be and just stops right there, allowing you to recreate new neurlolgical patterns and muscle memory. I'm not so sure of this as I have good and bad days with it. It is like I have mini-relapses where I'm starting to play well again and suddenly I'm struggling again. But at least I know to back off and reevaluate where I am in the moment. It is easy to make your playing worse if you don't know what you're dealing with.

The one other thing about playing with FD is that I had to search for a mouthpiece rim that suited my embouchure best. I had to find something that could produce a basic sound with as little facial effort or distortion as possible. This, I believe, has allowed me to readdress my mechanics and learned a ton. I am not sure how long it will take to completely recover from it, if I ever will. Only time will tell.

Good luck,
_________________
Schilke B1, Bach 37, 1969 Getzen Severinsen Eterna
Bach C 229 w Charlie Melk custom work
Getzen Eterna Cornet, Crappy old Yamaha 3valve Eb
Stanton Kramer "Signature" Mouthpiece

[Roberts-K]

Pete, The reason I said "overuse" is because I know two guys that play the banjo professionally that worked with the same band. The first was in his early 50's and played for a few years with this band, run by one of the fastest fiddle players out there. The first time I heard of focal distonia was when the banjo player could not control the middle finger on his right hand. He had to quit and they hire a new banjoist, 22 years old and his first pro gig. About 18 months later he too was diagnosed and had to quit for over a year before he could play again. I have a third friend who also plays professionally and also at break neck tempo's. He was taken to a neurologist by Humpy Wheeler (NASCAR track owner) and told " we are gonna get you fixed, and I'll pay the bill, don't you worry. The neurologist examined him and came back in and said, "you have focal distonia and there is nothing I can do for you"
It is not a muscle problem but a nerve/brain breakdown where the signals are not being interpreted and lack of movement being the result, and they don't know why it happens, but over training is overuse in my opinion! I know one thing, it sucks if you make your living playing music and one day you just can't anymore!
_________________
2010 Lawler 25th C7 XL
Lalwer LF-1 Flugel

[stanton]

The interesting thing is the onset and perhaps even the neurological distortion is subtle. However, as musicians, due to our training we amplify the malady with our reactions to it.

What happens is that once the FD sets in, we are not able to make the same pnysical motions/acts to creat our sounds the way we are used to. The neurological pathway is disrupted BUT WE ARE NOT YET AWARE OF THE DISRUPTION. We hear a sound (as trumpet players) which isn't what we want and make the subconscious, automatic correction that we have always made. But our face/body does not respond. So we double down the effort and build in a negative pathology in our playing. So the harder we try to fix it the worse it gets.

In my case I had to go back to square one in my playing. Since the link between the brain and the muscles is "broken" you have to build new neural pathways again. Total relearning.

Part of the relearning process was trying to take as much of the musculature out of the equation as possible (difficult with string players as they don't have air to balance against). Relearning embouchure formation was quite difficult. Though I was on the way to rebuilding, I came across a couple vids on YouTube by Charlier Porter. When I'm not playing well I can use pedal C to help form my embouchure and get me on track. At least (and at last) I finally have a physical reference that I can use.

As an interesting side note, as I rebuild my playing my sound is SIGNIFICANTLY different than it was before. It is much darker, so I have to be very conscious of not letting it go dead or mushy. I can now let my sound guide me to proper air support which is a recent observation.

I hope that sheds some light on FD, at least from my perspective. In terms of playing it has been the most horrific three years of my life. I am hopeful that I can use it to make my playing better than before- but that seems off in the distance. I guess that is my only option. Gotta play the hand I was dealt.

Good luck.
_________________
Schilke B1, Bach 37, 1969 Getzen Severinsen Eterna
Bach C 229 w Charlie Melk custom work
Getzen Eterna Cornet, Crappy old Yamaha 3valve Eb
Stanton Kramer "Signature" Mouthpiece

[stanton]

One more thing...

With FD one has to remember that often one's "muscle memory" is obliterated by the affliction which means that one may be lacking any physical referernce (familiar feel). Sometimes during this "rebuilding" process my embouchure sort of loses its way and I need to refresh the feeling of what a good embouchure set is. I found the following link by Charlier Porter which helps me put things back together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MQd-ymDNkQ&feature=related

Hope this helps.
_________________
Schilke B1, Bach 37, 1969 Getzen Severinsen Eterna
Bach C 229 w Charlie Melk custom work
Getzen Eterna Cornet, Crappy old Yamaha 3valve Eb
Stanton Kramer "Signature" Mouthpiece

[Pete Anderson]