Basic Dent Removal

[bigdanv]

So I've got a couple old beater horns that are riddled with dents, especially in the bell bow. I've grown curious about the techniques used to straighten out dents, and from searching the forum I've come across the names of two band instrument repair books that might provide me with some good information to get started.

The two books are Ferree's Band Instrument Repair Manual, and Instrument Repair for the Music Teacher. Based on the descriptions, the Ferree's manual seems geared towards someone more serious, whereas Instrument repair for the Music Teacher seems to focus on the basics.

Does anyone have any first hand experience with either of these books? I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts.

[A.N.A.Mendez]

Yes, $1500.00 worth of tools and you are on your way!
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[royjohn]

I have a copy of the Ferree book and I took a look at the Table of Contents, the first pages and the index of the other one (by Stanley) on Amazon. Both books have a lot of material that isn't on topic as far as brass repair, covering winds instead. Based on the page numbers cited in the index, there are only two or three pages of info on dent removal in the Stanley book and none of the tools in the basic tool kit recommended by Stanley have much to do with removing dents inside the instrument. It does appear to be more of a book for beginners, but if you plan on getting the dents out of a horn, you are going to need tools to reach them and that will include dent balls and burnishers or a magnetic system and possibly even a bell mandrel and a pipe mandrel, if that's what you call it. The Ferree book does give abbreviated shop procedures for removing dents and all the other common repair tasks. As an educated amateur who has watched these things done and read the book, but not repaired instruments myself, I think if you are going to actually repair trumpets you will need the Ferree manual or something like it and you will have to invest in some tools. Once you grasp how to remove dents, you might be able to make some things that will work to reach some dents, but there are some things that virtually require either a set of dent balls or a magnetic system to remove. You can also make burnishers (I make jewelry, so I know how to make metalworking tools and it is not that complicated), but you will require a good grinder and some polishing equipment and it might be simpler for most people to buy what you need and you could get away with a few basic shapes to start.

The Ferree manual gives very basic descriptions of procedures. A DVD of procedures would be great. You should look for some videos on Youtube or a DVD on ebay, I seem to recall there was one for sale once.

The Stanley book does have a section on aligning valves. However, there have been some threads here that explain that well enough.

If you get some kind of magnetic system, which is tempting, considering all it is purported to be able to do, be very, very careful as they are quite dangerous when used around ANY ferrous metals. Could be like being pecked to death in Hitchcock's "The Birds" if you are not careful.

There are a few threads discussing this topic elsewhere on TH, but I can't remember exactly where or when.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[stumac]

For under $400 you can get an economy dent ball set, driver and a couple of hammers from Votaw tools, then all you need is practice

Instructions for use downloadable from their website.

Regards, Stuart.

[etc-etc]

Don't forget you may have to anneal the dent if it is really bad.

[jmichaelhurt]

Take it from someone who has spent many hours with a dent ball machine, it ain't easy! I've had probably 6-7 years of experience with removing dents from horns and only over the past two years have I been capable of doing exceptional work. And that's with a master repair tech looking over my shoulder If you have the money to invest into the tools then maybe "hiring" a repair tech in your area to show you some basics might be a good idea. Seems like if you can buy lessons for playing a trumpet then you should be able to buy lessons on how to fix them too!

Also, the magnetic dent ball systems don't really work too well, if at all, on trumpets. The dent balls needed to get up into the bell bow are too small, thus, not powerful enough to get dents out in tubing with that small a diameter. The magnets work best on larger horns like tubas and euphoniums.
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[plankowner110]

[philosofriend]

If you can get it in your head that the brass is soft and that you want to gently push the dent out with many pushes or light taps with a light tool, it is easy to learn how to push the dents out.
What is more difficult is to not add more scratches along the way. To achieve this, all your tools need to have no scratches of their own, they must be smooth and polished. To learn on a low budget, go to the section of a hardware store that has socket wrenches. The sockets and the extensions are smooth plated steel. Lube them with vaseline or synthetic auto rear end lube, then use them to push or tap out the dents. Stare at the dent as you tap around it gently.
If you are holding a tool that can remove dents, you are also holding a tool that can quickly add new dents. Don't be in a hurry.
It is a big help to have a strong vise on a immovable table. Put a long socket drive extension in the vise and you can go after dents pretty far down the bell. You can support the dent on the steel bar then push on the other side of the brass with a smooth lubed steel tool.
Good luck. It is easy to make a horn play better by reducing the dents. It is hard to make the results look like a real repairman could achieve.

[yourbrass]

The best way is to apprentice to a repair person.

That's easier said than done these days. But you can have a lot of fun trying to do it w/o guidance as long as you work on junkers, beaters, etc.
NEVER TRY IT ON YOUR FRIENDS' GREAT HORNS!

It's a shame that there aren't more places where one can go to work on this craft; it's really a lot of fun.