Best Recording Method for PC

[jhatpro]

What's the best way to get good sound from my horn onto a computer file that can be burned onto a CD?

I have an Olympus digital recorder with pop-up USB that creates wav files. Sound is a little thin, however.

I have an expensive Sansom horn mike but not sure what I need to do to get the sound into my PC. (I have Pro Tools SE but have been unable to create a recording with it. I downloaded what I think are the necessary drivers but no results.)

All suggestions appreciated!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[Capt.Kirk]

I too am interested in this. I can never get a good answer on other sites. Usually for every response their is a counter argument.

I am not looking to record at the level needed to make commercial level recording for resale. I do want a high level of fidelity though so that little quirks be them positive or negative in a horn can be clearly heard as well as all the rich colorful harmonic's.

So I would love to hear some good arguments and idea's on this topic and I suspect many other's would appreciate a good thread on it as well! Most of us are not pro's but want decent fidelity.

Thanks!!!
_________________
The only easy day was yesterday!

[starkadder]

Zoom H2 (http://tinyurl.com/56p787). I use mine all the time for all kinds of things. Right now I am using it as a high-quality mic for Google phone.

I've seen the local trumpet professor use his to record recitals when the recital hall sound system was down. He said there was hardly any difference.

You can record as a wav file or as mp3.

[amigomatt]

[DavesTrumpet]

[jhatpro]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys!

I tried a Zoom H1 and it sounds great! It'll certainly enable me to burn a CD for the pianist who's going to accompany me at at upcoming wedding.

As long as I have the Samson, however, I'd like to hear what it can do as well so I plan to investigate the Saffire, too.

Thanks again!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[trombahonker]

Hey all,

There are many ways to tackle this; the price tends to increase with the quality of product you want.


Firstly, a lot of good information was covered in the follow threads:

http://trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=94232

http://trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=102133

http://trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=97178

http://trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95228


That said, here is my low-tech synopsis as I remember how complicated recording seemed to me at first...


Firstly, to understand the big picture:

You need to get a microphone's analog signal into your digital computer, so you either need a mic that has this ability built in (in the form of a USB mic), or a DAC (digital audio converter) of some sort that will take a normal mic's signal and send it in to your computer digitally.

The cheapest route to get an OK product for, say, practice analysis, is to use a USB mic such as the Blue Microphones "Yeti". It's a decent mic (a large diaphragm multi-pattern condenser) that has a USB port on it to which you directly connect your computer; it registers as an audio device and you can direct its signal in to recording programs. So the Yeti and other USB mics are just normal microphones with DACs built in.

You can expect about this quality with that sort of set up. (Link to youtube video of Craig Morris recording w/Blue Yeti).

You can also use a portable recorder, such as the Zoom H2, H4n (I have one and like it). These types of things will generally plug in to a computer and act as a set of microphones being mixed in to a single signal (like situation 1 below)



Now, say you are looking to make something a little higher quality, perhaps with piano and/or several mics. In this case, you'll need a way to connect and adjust all of the microphones and get their signals into your computer.


There are generally two ways to do this:

1) Use an analog mixing board with USB or Firewire connection.

With this setup, all of the "mixing" (so, making the microphones the right levels, balance, etc) is done using the external device, not on the computer or via its software. If you have four mics to record, you'll need at least four channels, if you have eight mics, you'll need at least eight channels, etc.

This mixing board then sends ONE stereo (left and right) digital signal in to your computer via USB (or firewire), where you can record using a program to your hard drive, later cutting and modifying.

2) Use a multi-channel Digital Audio Coder (remember, DAC).

With this setup, all of the "mixing" is done using the software of your computer, NOT the device. A four channel DAC will send four distinct signals in to your computer and your computer's software will tell the DAC "hey, turn #1 mic down some, and make #4 louder", etc. Tascam has a new line of affordable multi-channel USB interfaces that have made this style of recording possible for folks with low budgets.



Now, here are a couple important things:

1) Some microphones need power (condenser mics). If you want a condenser mic, your analog mixing board or DAC needs to have phantom power.

2) All microphones need "preamps", amplifiers built in to the DAC or analog mixing board to make the microphone's little signal bigger. You can also use stand-alone, external preamps (such as the Presonus Bluetube DP).

3) There are a LOT of microphones. All will work with an analog mixer or DAC.

4) Most of the time, you can get higher quality than you think with cheaper mics by using good external preamps, or a DAC or board with good preamps.

5) Sound engineers go to school for a long time to learn what they're doing. Don't be surprised that recording is difficult.



Oh no, I haven't said anything about microphones! Well, read through the links posted at the top; many good mics are referred to within there. FWIW, I have seven:

2 - Samson CL2 Pencil Microphones (a stereo pair, small diaphragm condensers with two pickup patterns; Omni and cardiod.

2 - Cascade M39 Pencil Microphones (a stereo pair, small diaphragm condensers with one pickup pattern; cardiod.)

1 - Cascade V57 Large Diaphram condenser (cardiod)

2 - Cascade Fat Head II ribbon microphones (figure-eight pickup pattern).

I use a 14 channel Allen & Heath ZED-14 analog mixing console that sends a single signal into my mac via USB. I also use a Bluetube DP-2 two channel tube preamplifier for the ribbon microphones. I also have an M-Audio FastTrack Pro 4 channel USB-interface that allows me to take a set of mics (usually the CL2s or Fat Heads), the interface and a computer to something and get a pretty good recording.

With these microphones, I am able to record most situations and get a good product. A stereo pair for the piano, two omnis for catching ambiance of a room, the ribbon mics for catching the solo instrument or ensemble, the large condenser for a bass or setting up a Mid-side stereo recording with one of the Fat Heads. If I'm recording a recital, I nearly always use a simply stereo pair. If I'm trying to get a better, more balanced recording, I am able to use these mics to catch the different qualities of woodwind, brass, and string instruments.


OK, jhatpro. For you specifically, if you want to just use the mic you have, I suggest getting a single channel DAC, or four-channel USB mixer with preamps. The QUALITY of the preamp is 90% of your battle, so spending money on a good DAC (such as an Apogee), is worthwhile, if you'll use it. But, you will not get a good, full, nice trumpet sound using a bell mic.

Also, here are some more useful links:

About Microphones and their patterns

Recording a piano and solo instrument

How to set up mics in stereo



ANYway, hopefully this has been more helpful than confusing.

Cheers,
Aaron N.
_________________
Trombahonker's Practice Studio on Youtube

[oxleyk]

Jim, is this on your Mac or in Windows? I can stop by if you need a hand.

Kent

[lh]

Hey Aaron,

That was a great post. Very well said, but dang, I forgot that I wanted a pair of fatheads! Looks like the kids will be eating worms on the curb this year!

Dave
_________________
Eclipse Enigma Bb trumpet 2011
Olds Super Bb trumpet 1958
Eclipse Red Flugelhorn 2011
Selmer Paris model 59 Piccolo 1977
Conn New Invention Cornet 1913

[trombahonker]