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SchilkeB5user
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Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Posts: 26
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 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Hi, I've posted a couple topics on high range stuff and have recieved some great things out of it.
I posessed(can't spell  ) a G (Top of staff) 3 months ago and now posses a high C and can play it for hours. I found it was all mental because I had the muscle already just that I was freaking out when I got up there. Now, my problem now is that my low range doesn't come out well. It stuffs up and when I have to do an example for some of my peers... WHAT The waS thAt!!!! Whats more embarassing is that I am 1st chair .
Is this problem most likely due to not properly doing the Roll in Roll out? Is it that I have not mastered it?
Thanks in advanced because I know some great posts are coming. |
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_dcstep
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 6324
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:29 am Post subject: |
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On 2003-07-28 11:01, SchilkeB5user wrote:
Hi, I've posted a couple topics on high range stuff and have recieved some great things out of it.
I posessed(can't spell ) a G (Top of staff) 3 months ago and now posses a high C and can play it for hours. I found it was all mental because I had the muscle already just that I was freaking out when I got up there. Now, my problem now is that my low range doesn't come out well. It stuffs up and when I have to do an example for some of my peers... WHAT The waS thAt!!!! Whats more embarassing is that I am 1st chair .
Is this problem most likely due to not properly doing the Roll in Roll out? Is it that I have not mastered it?
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Hopefully you're still using a "normal" mouthpiece, like a 3C. Don't use a peashooter to get your high range. Assuming that's not the case, then you're probably playing too many high notes in practice. You don't get higher by blowing high-Cs for hours. That'll tighten you up and get you, in effect, muscle bound.
Instead, practice playing the middle-line G wisper soft for five to twenty minutes. Start the note with no tongue and let it break on and off. Focus on trying to get it constant and very, very soft. Breathe as needed, but do it with as little pressure as possible and totally stress free. At first, don't worry about the tone, just get extremely soft. Keeping it soft, begin to achieve clear tone by focusing the airstream.
When you get good at this (it may take two or three weeks), then you'll be able to slur up to C, E, G, simply by raising your tongue and tightening your abs slightly. If you set your embouchure for the G above the staff, then no change in embouchure will be needed up or down. (I don't understand your reference to rolling in and out. That's probably a big mistake. You get the upper range by speeding up the air, not rolling or pinching your lips).
The pencil exercise is good, but don't over-do it. It helps you set the corners and build your aperture. I think two or three times per week is enough for most.
My embouchure doesn't change from pedal C# (can't get the C) to Ab above high-C; I focus on air speed, via tongue hieght, and air support from the abs. You may be using some other type of embouchure. If so, I'm not recommending a change, BUT I am saying you're playing way too many high notes, perhaps with too much pressure and other bad habits, and you need to get the stress out by playing the middle-line G. This is incredibly simple, but it works if you'll be patient.
Best regards,
Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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LeeC
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 5730
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like the original poster is just going through a transition phase. A case of the chops not quite catching up to the learning process. Rest the embouchure a few days by playing less. When you resume keep an eye on your playing/practice regimen so that you don't overdo it.
Our lips can't always tell us when we're tired. The way we know our chops are too stressed is when our sound goes to hell.
Also, I never bad mouth the smaller mouthpiece users. If a smaller piece works and you're happy, why not? There is so much ignorance on the mouthpiece piece issue. |
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_dcstep
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 6324
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Also, I never bad mouth the smaller mouthpiece users. If a smaller piece works and you're happy, why not? There is so much ignorance on the mouthpiece piece issue.
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No one bad-mouthed a smaller mouthpiece and no ignorance of the issue has been displayed in this thread. He said at the outset that he's unhappy, so that's why we're talking about it! We don't even know what mouthpiece he uses.
Still, his problem more likely relates to overstressing his lip by playing too many high-Cs for too long without proper flexibility and relaxation studies.
Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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SchilkeB5user
Regular Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Mouthpieces: Okay, I play on a 2 1/2C and sometimes a 1c (for concert band) which reduces my range by a note and a half. I hate using shallow mouthpieces because after I finish playing it and go to a normal mouthpiece I sound like crap.
Practicing: After I play up high for awhile (about after 30 seconds of high notes) I warm down on pedals using the stamp pedal studies and sometimes I go down to the double pedal. After the pedals I rest about 10 seconds and go on with my studies.
Practice Schedule:
1. Air drills/Warmups Bill Adams, Stamp and some Caruso
2. Clarke Technical Studies 1-19
3. Scales then thirds forwards and backwards. Then C7,C#7 in 5/4 and so forth. I've just started forths so I work on those.
4. All-State music and music to be worked on
5. High Range and Tounging drills...etc.
6. Something fun
7. Warmdown (Stamp first study)
Roll-In/Out: DCStep the roll-in roll-out thing I believe is in pops book and I have learned that from many teachers but not the same words as the other like you might expect. I wonder if you muscles change as you go up into the higher register of the trumpet, as in strenghthen. Thats kinda what I mean by roll-in/out if it applies to you. Maybe its wrong and I'll take whatever is posted into consideration.
Thanks and keep posting I wanna learn as much as I can not to be just a good player but a teacher also. |
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_dcstep
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 6324
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
On 2003-07-29 00:31, SchilkeB5user wrote:
Practicing: After I play up high for awhile (about after 30 seconds of high notes) I warm down on pedals using the stamp pedal studies and sometimes I go down to the double pedal. After the pedals I rest about 10 seconds and go on with my studies.
Practice Schedule:
1. Air drills/Warmups Bill Adams, Stamp and some Caruso
2. Clarke Technical Studies 1-19
3. Scales then thirds forwards and backwards. Then C7,C#7 in 5/4 and so forth. I've just started forths so I work on those.
4. All-State music and music to be worked on
5. High Range and Tounging drills...etc.
6. Something fun
7. Warmdown (Stamp first study)
Roll-In/Out: DCStep the roll-in roll-out thing I believe is in pops book and I have learned that from many teachers but not the same words as the other like you might expect. I wonder if you muscles change as you go up into the higher register of the trumpet, as in strenghthen. Thats kinda what I mean by roll-in/out if it applies to you. Maybe its wrong and I'll take whatever is posted into consideration.
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Those mouthpieces are all fine. You might consider sticking with the 2 1/2 all the time. It should give you a good, focused tone and plenty of range. I don't see the point in using a mouthpiece that takes away notes.
Ok, I think you're not resting enough. You hardly mention it and then it's ten-seconds. (After even a few high notes, you need five or ten-minutes rest, particularly at the start of a session). Also, you mention warmups, but list several. Generally, you might stick to one or two excercises for five, ten or twenty-minutes. Finally, I'll say it again, five or ten minutes on a wisper-soft, middle-line G will do wonders.
You need to formally add several five or ten-minute breaks to your routine. Also, take a page from Clark and practice very softly. This also will do wonders. Let the tone suffer a little at first when you start practicing softly so that you get it really, really soft. With just a little work, you'll improve your purity of tone AND endurance. Still, don't forget plenty of rest.
Well, I took one-lesson from Pops and he increase my range and endurance tremendously. Whatever he says is right. (He didn't mention roll-in, roll-out to me. He also said that I didn't need a pivot, yet his books discuss this in depth. Go figure.)
Good luck,
Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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Emb_Enh
Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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I posessed (can't spell ) a G (Top of staff) 3 months ago and now posses a high C and can play it for hours. I found it was all mental because I had the muscle already just that I was freaking out when I got up there.
Now, my problem now is that my low range doesn't come out well.
It sounds like you are achieving the "hi c for hours" by 'more than the required brute force' technique -- [bad]...therefore your lips swell and then don't let out your LOW notes
...also the mpc's you are using are fine for a strong/consistent/experienced lead player but MAY at this point be hindering your solution to this problem. Meaning that to achieve your current level you may be using EXCESSIVE pressure to swell the lips up a little so as to take up some space in a large-ish mpc which in turn will give you to support [from the swelling] to get your hi c
Is this problem most likely due to not properly doing the Roll in Roll out?
Roll in-Roll out is one of JEFF SMILEYS fave subjects...I personally don't advocate this in my teaching techniques....here's JEFF...
http://www.trumpetteacher.net/
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Regards, Roddy o-iii
RoddyTpt@aol.com
"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
BOOK 1 also... BOOK 2 + demo CD
[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method] |
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