Bb & C mpc the same?

Husband_of_the_Waves · New Member Joined: 23 Feb 2003 Posts: 8

Can you use a Bb mouthpiece with a C trumpet? Or is there a seperate mouthpiece for each key of horn or something?

Thanks

MarchardFerguson · Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:17 pm Post subject:

You can use any mouthpiece you want, I think people would normally use a shallower one though because it is in a higher register, kinda like how picolo trumpets use shallower mouthpieces

MarchardFerguson · Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:18 pm Post subject:

Then again, I hear of a lot of ochestral trumpeters using the C trumpets so maybe they use a larger mouthpiece for a darker sound.

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

I play a Monette B flat and a Bach C trumpet.
Mr. Monette would tell you there is a difference between B flat and C mp.
I think he is correct. The C trumpet is smaller.
How would the C trumpet play in tune if you made the mp. smaller? " I don't know"

I play a Monette B flat mp on everything. B15M
On my picc - E flat - D - C- B flat.
It seems to work well but maybe if I had an extra 200.00 to spend I would sound better!

Cheng · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:19 pm Post subject:

I use the same mouthpiece on both my C and Bb. I have tried a smaller piece on the C but it did not make an appreciable difference for me.

When I have tried a Eb/D and piccolo, then there was a difference.
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Harry Marks
Yamaha 6345HSII;Yamaha 6445HGSII, Schilke E3L, Flugel Kanstul ZKF-1525;
Cornet Conn Connstellation (1967);
Piccolo Kanstul ZKT 1520
Mouthpieces Various Monette Prana 2's
Santa Rosa Wind Symphony
SRJC Orchestra

fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:04 pm Post subject:

I use the same mouthpiece for Bb & C... Monette is the only mouthpiece maker I know of that discourages using the same mouthpiece for Bb & C (his mouthpieces). If you're using conventional equipment, as Dave Monette calls it, then I think it's perfectly fine to use the same piece for both horns. I've never played a Monette horn or mouthpiece, so I couldn't draw any conclusions there.
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_Don Herman · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 5:48 am Post subject:

You can, and many do, use the same mpc. I do not, because my C mpc offers a couple of advantages for me:

1. It has a larger throat etc. so it makes my NTC blow a little more open (a plus or minus; depends on you!)

2. The shank is shorter.

The combination (plus whatever other magic is in it from Flip/Mark) makes my C play more open and better in tune (again, for me).

YMMV - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

softcase · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:18 am Post subject:

i use the same mouthpiece on Bb, C, D, and Eb, smaller on picc.

Vessehune · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:31 am Post subject:

Of course Monette suggests using different MP's on different keyedinstruments. If you take just an average player say they have a Bb,C,Picc., and a flugel. That is 5 mouthpieces(2 for the Picc.) he can sell them and if you just buy the standard ones at $200 that is $1000 in just mouthpieces. I know people up here at college that have at least that many and some have more because they wanted a lead piece as well. This is just great marketing again by Monette.
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---Brian Vessey---
Calicchio 1s-7 Ultra; ML Bore
Mouthpiece = ?????

doitallman · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:35 am Post subject:

I use the same mouthpiece as well, but it is not uncommon to use a very similar mouthpiece for C trumpet. Similar but not the same, some people use the same rim but open up the shank.
If you are just starting on C I would say use the same mouthpiece, it should make it easier to get used to the new horn.
Later on you can start experimenting with different mouthpieces.

BenTreason · Regular Member Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Posts: 73

"Of course Monette suggests using different MP's on different keyedinstruments. If you take just an average player say they have a Bb,C,Picc., and a flugel. That is 5 mouthpieces"

I've always considered myself pretty conservative when it comes to mouthpieces and I haven't made any major changes in quite some time. Still, I don't own a pic, I don't own a C, or an Eb/D or anything else. I own a Bb, and a flugel and I have a handful of mouthpieces, more than 5, and that is with just two horns! Of course Monette is going to tell you that you need multiple mouthpieces. He makes much more money that way!
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Ben Treason
(the voice of reason)

doitallman · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:40 am Post subject:

If you really think about the reason he says that you need multiple mouthpieces, it makes perfect sense. I think he is the only one crazy enough to actually tell his customers they need one for every key of instrument. It is what he is know for.
It makes sense to me that different keys should have a different mouthpieces. Even if I don't use Monette mouthpieces right now.

BenTreason · Regular Member Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Posts: 73

Why does it make sense? Do you need to drastically alter the backbore of the mouthpiece for different horns? The cup size? The rim? Why would it matter that much? I used to use the SAME mouthpiece on Bb, C, Eb/D although I admit, I had a different mouthpiece for pic, but I never had any trouble going from horn to horn, or from style to style for that matter. What could be so different that a horn one step higher needs a completely different mouthpiece to play properly?
_________________
Ben Treason
(the voice of reason)

Lawler Bb · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:37 am Post subject:

Ben Treason and all, may I enlighten you?

There is a very good reason why people use different size mouthpieces on different key horns. It is for sound. I use similar mouthpieces on my Bb and C, with my mouthpiece for the C as Don said, having a more open throat, etc. I do not use the same piece on Eb trumpet. I find that if I play a 67MX, 1 1/2C, B1-2, or whatever around that size in an Eb trumpet, you get an uncharacteristic sound, as in an Eb trumpet sounding like a C. Now, if you want that, more power to you. I use a 3C on Eb which gives it a more compact and brighter sound, more like Eb should sound, IMHO. To show an exaggerated form of this, put a large (like 1 1/2C or something) mouthpiece in a piccolo and try that out. It will sound good, but notice how large the sound is and how easily you can overload the horn. This happens the same way on an Eb or D, F, or G for that matter, just to a lesser extent.

Now I don't know how this would work if your regular piece is a 3C or something. Maybe then you wouldn't find a need to switch. I think my described situation is more common for persons playing large orchestral sized mouthpieces on the big horns (Bb and C).

I hope this clears things up.

smithwatkinsguy · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:12 pm Post subject:

It does make sense how the C trumpet mouthpieces and other higher pitched trumpet mouthpieces made by Monette have a smaller shank, but I really don't see the difference..that's the only thing...the shank size and the throat entrance is ever so slightly different as you go to the higher pitched mouthpieces because of the smaller shank. GR says that Bb and C are ok to use the smaller mouthpieces, and I feel fine on Bb and C with my GR67LX. It keeps the sound more focused, IMO.
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Vessehune · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:17 pm Post subject:

Myabe I'm just curious what huge difference there can be with the Monette Bb and A picc pieces. It's a half step difference, yet they sell both and people buy both!! Ohh well. What ever floats your boat.
_________________
---Brian Vessey---
Calicchio 1s-7 Ultra; ML Bore
Mouthpiece = ?????

doitallman · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:59 pm Post subject:

It makes sense.
Think about it. Should you not try to do everything you can to play more in tune.
That is the reason why Monette says that people play out of tune. I read on another post that the Bach mouthpiece was designed to use on a trumpet in A and that the design has not changed.
This is not to say that you can't play in tune if you use the same mouthpiece. But changing mouthpieces design to fit different keys should make it easier for one to play that instrument better in tune. I know clarinete players change mouthpieces when they switch between Bb and A one mouthpiece barrel being longer than the other. So why can't it also be true for trumpets. I'm sure someone here can explain the scientific reason better than I.

Wow I just realized that I am now a veteran...Heavyweight here I come!
edited to add that in.

[ This Message was edited by: doitallman on 2003-08-07 18:01 ]

Vessehune · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:24 pm Post subject:

Well it seems strange that a lot of the great players play so easily on Bach mouthpieces(Herseth, Arturo,etc). It's also strange that it took decades after Bb became standard tuning for someone to make the MP the "correct" length.

Clarinets are totally different. The A clarinet is smaller than a Bb so it is physically impossible to use the same equipment. Not a good example. I can use just about any trumpet mouthpiece in a Picc. on either the Bb or A slide. Like I said its just a great marketing scheme to sell more mouthpieces.
_________________
---Brian Vessey---
Calicchio 1s-7 Ultra; ML Bore
Mouthpiece = ?????

doitallman · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:39 pm Post subject:

The C trumpet is shorter than the Bb trumpet as well..so it is a good example.
That is the whole point shorter instruments in different keys should benefit from different designs in mouthpieces.
And I did say that one can play well with the same mouthpiece but it makes it harder, ofcourse everyone is different so some will need it more than others and some don't need it at all.
The only thing you can do is try it and see if it helps.

Oxfordite · Veteran Member Joined: 16 Nov 2001 Posts: 180

It is suggested to use a mouthpiece designed for that register. I was mentioned that Monette designs all his mouthpieces to be used in a certain key. While you can use any mouthpiece in order to get the most out of the C trumpet you need to use a mouthpiece designed for symphonic work or at least one made for that horn. A lot of people tend to find C trumpets out of tune, this could very easily be due to improper mouthpiece length. Food for thought...