Bb & C mpc the same?

Lawler Bb · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:33 pm Post subject:

Correct me if I am wrong, but the last time I checked, the A clarinet is longer than the Bb. And for the record, I have a number of clarinet player friends who use the same mouthpiece on both horns. The barrels are different for each horn.

Vessehune · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:42 pm Post subject:

I sill don't buy the fact that brilliant desingers such as V. Bach or R. Schilke never thought of the length thing. It seems that at least Schilke, who seemed to love to experiment on all things trumpet, would have thought of this and tested it. I'm not saying that Monette isn't smart. I think he's a very bright guy, but I think if shank length was really as critical as Monette makes it out to be it would have been discovered a lot sooner than 1985.

The whole Clarinet matter is still a poor example. NO PART. Again NO PART of an A clarinet and a Bb will fit together. Were I can easily take a "Bb" trumpet mouthpiece and easily put it in a C trumpet and a Picc. (A or Bb). As well as most other keyed trumpets as well. So while I can see the example you are trying to make it still doesn't fly!

I'm just suprised Monette hasn't designed a Drum Corps line of "G" Bugle mouthpieces. He could rake in even more money that way!

Edit-----Maybe I'm thinking of the Wrong Clarinet!

I was think of the really small looking one! What key is that in?-----
_________________
---Brian Vessey---
Calicchio 1s-7 Ultra; Large Bore
GR 67M

[ This Message was edited by: Vessehune on 2003-08-07 21:51 ]

Oxfordite · Veteran Member Joined: 16 Nov 2001 Posts: 180

The smallest clarinet is in Eb. And I believe Schilke did experiment with shank length.

Lawler Bb · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:25 pm Post subject:

The "little" clarinet is in Eb. Yeah, the clarinet example isn't that great since we are comparing woodwinds to brass. So let's talk trombones.

A bass trombonist would never use a tenor trombone mouthpiece, even with the same shank. This is for sound and playability reasons. Same as tenor players not using a 1G. Alessi is the only trombonist using very large equipment on a tenor trombone. Also, trombonists don't use a tenor mouthpiece on alto trombone (Eb). A 5G on alto trombone is like playing a 1 1/2C on a Eb trumpet. Most people use a 7C and up on alto trombone, if not a 12C. Again, the smaller mouthpiece is used on alto for sound and playability reasons.

This should make some more sense.

As for Monette making a mouthpiece for each key of trumpet, yeah he could probably get by with a Bb/C and an Eb mouthpiece. And a couple picc mouthpieces. Dave does what he does for a reason however, and I can notice a definite difference between his Bb and C mouthpieces when played on Bb and C trumpets, so in my mind, his methods work! That said, I don't currently play any Monettes, for other reasons.

Vessehune · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:28 pm Post subject:

I found this post on an old TPIN discussion it discuss shank length etc. It was written by GR so I'm sure its pretty acurate:

The standard length for a mouthpiece is 3.437".

A shorter mouthpiece gives a backbore with a larger average taper. This
will provide a sound that feels
big. The longer Curry, Reeves, and Callet will project better. Monette
uses a large but very long throat, a
short, straight linear large average taper backbore. This allows the
instrument to slot well. Some say too
well. Stork uses a long but very small throat that enters into a very
short large backbore. I notice
intonation problems with this situation. Just a year or so ago Mark
Curry believed a longer mouthpiece
was best.

What does this all mean? The pendulum is swinging. The makers are
going to make what sells! The key
to the is design. I don't care if the mouthpiece is 3" long or 3.5 "
long. I do care how that mouthpiece is
designed. The key is here. Now this mouthpiece must match you and your
trumpet. Many different
trumpets with many designs. There are very few trumpets made with good
quality. The choice is yours.

I had a very fine Symphonic player enter my shop. He had a Bach 1X rim
with a Bach 1 B underpart, 24
backbore and 24 throat. He also had a Monette C12 with a 19 throat.

The Monette had a resistance calculation of 11.7. 5.7 for the .166
throat @ .476 in length and a straight
.076" per inch taper backbore. The Bach had a 11.3 blow resistance.
The throat was .057" long with a very
low blow resistance and most of the resistance in the backbore. The
backbore was of a larger initial taper
vs. average taper. Sound was warmer, round, yet focused. The Monette
locked well but hurt his
flexibility. This guy had great chops. He played the Brandenburg 4
times on pic to warm up and never
missed a note.

Less resistance of the shorter length mouthpiece means less compression
for the top notes! It means
the tuning slide must be out further. It means less upper partials in
the sound and more fundamental, yes
less color, less projection and less focus. It can slot better if made
correctly but not on the top end of the
horn. Here is where the 3.65 inch long will slot best. I had a fellow
blowing above double C and the length
helped as well as the correct gap. In fact the gap is the single most
important part of the equation and
always over looked
_________________
---Brian Vessey---
Calicchio 1s-7 Ultra; ML Bore
Mouthpiece = ?????

Nonsense Eliminator · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:50 pm Post subject:

First of all:

Clarinet players do so use the same mouthpiece on B flat and A clarinet.

Second of all:

A B flat trumpet is not the same as a C trumpet. It is perfectly reasonable to decide that you want to use different mouthpieces. Monette is certainly not alone in suggesting different mouthpieces for different trumpets. Most mouthpiece makers will recommend matching the mouthpiece to the instrument, and some will suggest that a certain mouthpiece might be a compromise on one horn or the other. Most orchestral players don't spend a lot of time playing B flat trumpet and consequently aren't bothered by using a mouthpiece that might be slightly suboptimal on that horn. However, unlike Monette, most makers will say something like, "You will want a little shallower cup on the B flat," rather than, "You need to buy a mouthpiece that was designed specifically for C trumpet."

Third of all:

I play the same mouthpiece on B flat, C, and E flat, because it works for me.

TopGun · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Mar 2003 Posts: 456

I use the same piece for Bb, C and Eb. For the pic. I go to something a bit smaller.

TopGun

Lawler Bb · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:13 pm Post subject:

Amen to NE's post. Exactly my thoughts put a different way.

6pk · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:49 am Post subject:

These monette mouthpieces, can you get one thats about the same as a Bach 1c or maybe a tiny bit smaller, are they worth all the money?

doitallman · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:55 am Post subject:

I agree completely. Like I said Monette is the only one willing to tell his customers that you need a completely different mouthpiece for Bb and C.
I have many friends that play clarinete and most of them switch mouthpieces.

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

I am a huge Monette fan but I don't understand the mp. thing. If you have a shorter shank because the instrument is smaller won't the trumpet play sharp?
If you make the mp not go in far enough to play sharp, won't that increase the gap between the shank and the lead pipe?
Maybe on a Monette trumpet they account for this but then a b flat mp. should not fit in a c trumpet.