Do you care about the tongue level physics debate?
Yes
26%
[ 12 ]
No
41%
[ 19 ]
Please shut up about it already.
32%
[ 15 ]
Total Votes : 46
Author
Message
tommy t. Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2002 Posts: 2599 Location: Wasatch Mountains
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject:
etc-etc wrote:
Thus, no part of your body or trumpet moves at a supersonic speed. It is only the air that does, and then barely above the speed of the sound.
Air can travell at any speed below the speed of light. Sound travels in air at the speed of sound in air. What, in your model, speeds up the air? Tongue arch?
Tommy T. _________________ Actually, I hate music. I just do this for the money.
Thus, no part of your body or trumpet moves at a supersonic speed. It is only the air that does, and then barely above the speed of the sound.
Air can travell at any speed below the speed of light. Sound travels in air at the speed of sound in air. What, in your model, speeds up the air? Tongue arch?
Tommy T.
"These shock waves arise from the shock-tube-like effect of the performer's intermittent breath pressure driving the cylindrical duct of the trumpet, and are the result of cumulative nonlinear acoustic propagation inside the trumpet bore."
I just don't find the science of this debate particularly compelling.
However, I made a comment on that thread that "no one cares" which was answered by "how do you know?"
I thought - fair enough, let's see if people are interested in that topic. Thus the thread...
I'm actually surprised that the poll is that close. I guess people like a tennis match..
Yes, I was the one who asked you "how do you know?"
But thank you for the poll.
I will be the first to admit that many are not interested. And even did so in the thread.
But I AM interested, sometimes, in the subject and my perspective is not the motivation of constantly injecting science into the discussion of methods. But yet the opposite.
It WOULD be nice if we could discuss the "actions" and metaphors and ART of techniques without some pseudo-science justification.
Why is it that "arching" is not simply judged by whether it helps or not? Why does it require other "enforcement" with science, correct or not?
Also do you all have any suggestions on how these discussions should reside on TH for those who DO wish to read?
Last edited by kalijah on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:12 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 489 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject:
Maybe there should be stickies in the high range and fundamentals forums where we can gather and present everything that's known about the physical mechanics of playing the instrument, and we can try to generally contain the debate to those threads.
Similar to how TM has a "How does a trumpet work?" sticky at the top of their "trumpet discussion forum".
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject:
Pete Anderson wrote:
Maybe there should be stickies in the high range and fundamentals forums where we can gather and present everything that's known about the physical mechanics of playing the instrument, and we can try to generally contain the debate to those threads.
Similar to how TM has a "How does a trumpet work?" sticky at the top of their "trumpet discussion forum".
I don't mind if a person does that.
But... I wonder if we're better off just not trying to figure it out when we have sufficient metaphor to explain how to play well enough?
I guess we can put this next to "what does 'dark' mean?"
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject:
It's primarialy about visualization, or as VPW said, metaphor. I have been lucky enough to achieve high proficiency in a couple of disciplines. Without fail, there are arguments at all levels about the how and why something works or doesn't. About the only certaintly is the same approach/visualization/metaphor doesn't work for everyone.
I started thinking differently about tongue arch, and immediately added a third to my playable range and tripled my endurance. That was over three months ago and those improvements are permanent. It doesn't really matter to me if the physics of that are higher aispeed velocity (like I think) or a sympathetic resonse of interrelated muscles.
The bottom line is I can play higher, longer, and more musically with less effort................. _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:13 am Post subject:
Hilarious!
This thread was started in reference to the worthiness of a constant and long-winded argument that occurs frequently on the TH... and how this thread itself has argumentative prose in it!
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