King Master Large Bore...

[livertwist]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2551174532&category=41396&rd=1

Do you guys think that this is worth the BiN price of $275? I think with a little work - dent removal, chem clean, cork & felt replacement, and polishing - this could be a real nice horn. Especially from what I've read on here about the large bore Master models.

Or... would you recommend just going for a 1935 vintage of the same model. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2551076862&category=41396&rd=1 That one's only $110, but it needs some work too, bell straightening, etc.

And I was also wondering - both of these horns have the middle valve sitting slightly higher than the other two? Is this normal? Thanks,

Oliver

[BeboppinFool]

Oliver,

I don't claim to be a King guru, but I have a 1931(32?) Master (medium large) and a 1935 Silvertone (large bore) and I love both horns.

I got my Master for $73.00 on eBay and put about $100 worth of work into it (via John Lynch in Nokomis, FL). I got my Silvertone for $223.00 on eBay and put about $100 worth of work into it (also via John Lynch) and feel that I got good deals on both instruments, especially considering how good these horns now play.

I will not advise anyone on whether or not to buy any horn. I will say that I am quite happy with these two horns I acquired at fairly reasonable prices. Still, though, my #1 cornet is my 1953 Olds Recording, but I love to pick up the Kings now and then.

I learned the following from the late, great Rich Matteson: always leave your horn out of its case while you're at home (preferably one in every room of your house); that way you'll practice a lot more. Ever since I got interested in "collecting" trumpets and cornets, I notice that I practice a lot more.

Rich

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Rich Willey — www.boptism.com
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[ This Message was edited by: BeboppinFool on 2003-08-13 20:54 ]

[Tom K.]

They're both nice. The large bore is not 1900 like he says though. I think it's about 1932. It's confusing on the serial number charts because there are numbers for King and Cleveland and you have to look at the list for Cleveland in this case. I just bought a King Master Model Medium Bore in C with a rotary change to A from the same period. I love it. The engraving, the weird angles of the slides. Plus having a C and Bb in the same horn. Everything. That large bore probably has the slides for a switch to A. The second one has that great art deco engraving, though, which looks mighty nice. I think that higher middle valve is an optical illusion. There's nothing like that on my horn.

[DecentDude]

I've had three KING MASTER Cornets restored by the great Byron Autrey. I have been extremely pleased with all three. But......dents in a traditional cornet leadpipe can be problematic.
With few exceptions, such as the CONN 80's, in which you have access vis removal of the main tuning slide, cornet leadpipes are difficult to de-dent. Unless you can find a proper replacement lead pipe or the restorer removes the leadpipe for repair, it's unlikely that 100% dent removal will be achieved.
Soooo.....
I'd be careful, although the prices on these two horns may be so low as to leave a repair cost "cushion". Be wary of any horn with stuck slides since this may be indicative of neglect/abuse and/or "red rot" or serious corrosion that may not be otherwise evident.
The Masters are wonderful horns and seem to be able, with the right m'piece, to produce a more mellow "true cornet" sound than the KING Silvetone/SilverSonic models, at least in my experience.
Good Hunting!
DecentDude
(The Artist Formerly Known as DecentChap)

PeeEss: Suggestion- Have the horn restored by the best guy you can find/afford, including valve replating and alignment, it needed. Then, have it replated in Satin Silver with Gold highlights and inner bell.....WOW!.

[Oxfordite]

In answer to your question about the 2nd valve being higher, it is normal in a horn of this period. In fact the older the horn the more likely it is to have valve stems of unequal height. This can be adjusted of course but a valve alignment specialist such as Bob Reeves.

[_PhilPicc]

livertwist,
The King Masters are very fine instruments. I have owned 6 variations of the King Master, 2 SilverSonics and 4 SilverTones. All great horns.

I have two different serial # lists and they both agree on the dates of these horns.

Serial #1 - 50000 - 1893-1915

Serial #180010 - 1935

Serial #213274 - 1938 My current King SilverTone

All King horns in the above dates had "Made By The H N White Co. Cleveland, Ohio" but you use the King serial # list.

DecentDude, Welcome to TH. Just wondering how you know Byron Autry. I studied under Byron years ago and still chat with him on occasion.

HTH,
Phil





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Philip Satterthwaite

[ This Message was edited by: PhilPicc on 2003-08-14 10:12 ]

[ This Message was edited by: PhilPicc on 2003-08-14 10:14 ]

[DecentDude]

Phil,
I posted a response to your query in that Getzen Capri caper thread.
John

[livertwist]

OOOOOOOOOOH BABY! Anyone wanna loan me $600? I'm good for it, promise. I tell you, nicenative on eBay consistently has some great looking horns. Yum. Now I'm sad that I can't afford it. Visa can, but I have long since broken that resolution and I have to stay in check...

Oliver

oops... got so excited I forgot to add the link...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41396&item=2551477648

[ This Message was edited by: livertwist on 2003-08-15 00:45 ]

[DecentDude]

LiverTwist,
Take a deeeeep breath. LOL
Are you gonna play the thing or "collect" it? If the former bears more weight than the latter (You know, that thing you climb up on,) then there are points to consider, IMO.
Remember my mentioning that I had my Masters restored by Byron Autrey? Well, in addition to all the detail work, plating, etc, there were some other mods I realized would be essential if I were to play the things at all successfully.
On two of them, Byron installed a first valve slide hook, on the third, a first slide trigger, and finger rings on all three horns' third valve slides. In order to do these mods, he had to alter the upper portions of the slides so that they became "female" for their upper length, and the horn you are looking at will require the same if you need the often-crucial ability to adjust pitch on notes played with the first and/or third valve (I recommend adjustable ones for the third slide, don't know why the "pro" horns mostly have fixed ones.)
Should you need these mods done, then there will be "torch scorch" and soldering evident on the horn, and you then may require replating. If that is the case, then buffing remains a potential threat re: excess loss of metal and engraving detail. But, it may be that only the slides themselves will require such effort, so engraving isn't really at risk.
Good news! (About time, isn't it?) If you can have the old-style first slide hook installed, where it attaches to the back (bend) then the problem is avoided, at least so far as the first slide is concerned.
Go ahead and buy this horn! If the engraving is still sharp and the slides still pop, then you will have a winner.
You might ask if the tiny little Sterling symbol is evident above the other engraving.
Good luck!
D.Dude

[ This Message was edited by: DecentDude on 2003-08-15 07:11 ]

[MaynardProdigy]

Here is a Medium Bore for sale

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2371574876&category=41396
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