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rmch Regular Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2012 Posts: 94
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: Selmer Pre-K-Mod vs. K-Mod |
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What's the musical difference between the two? I've heard people say that it's huge, and I've heard other people say that there is no difference. My understanding is that Keith Eckert (Keith is where the "K" in K-Modified comes from) assembled the parts shipped from France and added a mouthpiece receiver that fits Bach style mouthpieces better. How does this affect the way K-Mods play compared with how Pre-K-Mods play? _________________ 1919 King Liberty
1923 Conn 22B
1955 Selmer 24A (Balanced Action)
1981 LA Benge ML #3 bell
1938 Couesnon Flugel
1907 HN White Co. "King" Cornet
1977 Selmer Picc |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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There are here and on TM a lot of threads about these trumpets.
There is some general opinion, FWIW, that the the pre-K-mods are better playing instruments especially in the field of core of sound and projection. |
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krax Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 689 Location: Hofors, Sweden
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:01 am Post subject: |
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Parts shipped from France, put together in the US... I don't believe in that. I'm sure Mr. Eckert was a part of the design team, but this trumpet model was sold in other parts of the world too, not only in America, so shipping horns to him for a final assembly... Would be a waste of money. |
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stumac Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 Posts: 697 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:38 am Post subject: |
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I believe at that time the American Govt had a high import duty on finished products in order to protect local industries, the duty on parts or unfinished items did not command the same rate so it was an advantage to finish locally.
Certainly this applied in Australia, a local manufacturer only had to say they could make an item to have a 45% duty added to an import.
Regards, Stuart. |
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FrankM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2011 Posts: 545 Location: Lincolnshire England
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:11 am Post subject: |
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The Bach compatible receiver story makes sense. I have 2 Selmers & neither yields a 'normal' gap with Bach shanks. One's a 1955 23A Balanced ( 10mm gap +/- 1mm), the other is a 99 Radial ( zero gap or bottoms out).
Cheers, Frank |
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MichaelM2 Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 264 Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:22 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure about pre K-Modified vs K-Modified. They were both made at the same time. I bought an L-990 in France from Selmer at the same time they were building the K-Modified lightweight. So they were building both at the same time. I think it was just dependent on the market.
Mike |
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BillyM Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2011 Posts: 108
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:30 am Post subject: |
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I have a K Modified X. What does the X indicate? I have heard several stories , but would be interested in other opinions. |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3670 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: |
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BillyM wrote: | I have a K Modified X. What does the X indicate? I have heard several stories , but would be interested in other opinions. |
Might be a large bore, if that's so, it's rare.
The "assembled in America" could be true. Until about 5-7 years ago, Yamaha was assembling instruments in Grand Rapids, Michigan. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /James R. New Studio backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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krax Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 689 Location: Hofors, Sweden
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: |
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stumac wrote: | I believe at that time the American Govt had a high import duty on finished products in order to protect local industries, the duty on parts or unfinished items did not command the same rate so it was an advantage to finish locally.
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That import duty, didn't it end with the WWII? Keeping it does not make sense, thinking about the Marshall aid.
During the 50's and 60's there were loads of cheap French and German trumpets for sale in US. In 1960 the price in US for a Couesnon Lafayette was 99 USD, the Couesnon step up model was 142 USD and the price of an Olds Ambassador was 147 USD.
There is also a Sears 1956 catalogue on horn-u-copia.net, very revealing. There are four Silvertone models:
The Silvertone 200 (at that time a Blessing Standard) - 145 USD.
The Silvertone made in France - 67,5 USD
The Silvertone made in Germany - 80 USD
The Silvertone made in USA - 100 USD
To my eyes: if there was an import duty it must have been very small, very small indeed. No import duty.
Add that the K-mod was introduced in 1954. Furthermore, if you go to the Selmer website you can find this photo of a K-mod with a Selmer Paris mouthpiece:
http://www.selmer.fr/#histdetail.php?id=61
In other words Selmer Paris changed their mouthpiece tapers for all their trumpets when they introduced the K-mod, which also is apparent if you check the aestethic design of Selmer mouthpieces from different eras.
Yes, Selmer also had other models in production at the same time as they were producing the K-mod, like the mentioned L-990, the Deville and also the Sabarich model. |
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krax Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 689 Location: Hofors, Sweden
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: |
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FrankM wrote: | The Bach compatible receiver story makes sense. I have 2 Selmers & neither yields a 'normal' gap with Bach shanks. One's a 1955 23A Balanced ( 10mm gap +/- 1mm), the other is a 99 Radial ( zero gap or bottoms out).
Cheers, Frank |
The Radial is supposed to match a Bach... There is no gap even if you use contemporary Selmer Paris mouthpieces. They do not wobble, but still there is no gap. Just think of it as a French touch to the standard. Obviously a reciever with no gap is much more sensitive to manufacturing differences with regard to the thickness of mouthpiece shanks. I have had some new moutpieces in satin finish, only because I know that that little difference in thickness will make them fit the Radial reciever perfectly.
Your 55' balanced must be one of the last, using the old pre K-mod reciever. |
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FrankM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2011 Posts: 545 Location: Lincolnshire England
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that info krax. Chimes with what I've observed. I'll stop trawling Ebay now, looking for a Selmer 4 piece contemporary with the 99. The huge gap on the 23A doesn't seem to cause problems.
Thanks again, Frank |
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