Wynton Vs. Sandoval

bachstrad · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Mar 2003 Posts: 194

Recently, I listened to both their recordings of the 3rd movement of hummel. And it amazes me that some consider these 2 players even in the same class. It got me to wondering if Wynton likes to use a little studio magic or if he's just that much better. If you listen, Arturo has messy multiple tonguing, and messes up some note ending pretty badly. And his trills are messy to say the least. And Wyntons are just like the epitome of perfect, i couldn't hear one fuzzy articulation and his trills were damn near perfect and alot faster than Arturo's. Any thoughts or comments on the comparison of the 2 players?

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

When I listen to music I don't look to see how technical a person is. I like to listen to the music. Maybe Winton had more studio time. I think that Winton is about the best technical player there is but there is more to music that you are not hearing from both players

David · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Posts: 379

I've never heard the Sandoval recording, but I have to agree that Wynton is a monster.

A criticism that Wynton has received from time to time is about a lack of emotion in his playing. I think this is pretty subjective. One thing I've not heard is a complaint about his technique.

To my ear, on the CD he did with Kathleen Battle his prefection make her difficult to listen to - and she is one of the best!
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trumpetmike · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 11:08 am Post subject:

Personally I would go for a recording by someone else altogether!
They are both incredible players, who I wish I could play even nearly half as well as, but neither recording convinces me.
Just because you have the technique to play trills at lightning speed and can play the whole of the last movement faster than anybody else, does not mean that you should. Sometimes, faster is not necessarily better.

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetmike on 2003-08-30 14:09 ]

loudog · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 11:25 am Post subject:

I agree. While although Wynton is an incredible player, I don't listen to his classical recordings for inspiration...they are pretty dry, in my opinion. His piccolo trumpet stuff is excellent, and I really do enjoy his album where he does the Haydn and Mozart, that's a great CD. I personally don't like his London Concert album at all!

As for Arturo, he really needs to stick to his jazz. While although he can play the classical lit, he sounds like a "jazzer" trying to play legit music. I hate his classical album; I think it's just awful. It's like the Al Hirt recording of the Haydn...it's terrible.

I do enjoy both players very much. Some of Wynton's classical stuff is good, but some isn't. And in my opinion, Arturo is just completely out of his realm in the classical literature.

Just my opinion.

Louie

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

This idea may be a little off-topic, but I wonder if anyone has considered why classical music is typically not recorded live? I don't have a definitive answer but I suspect that classical musicians are more than a little neurotic about perfection. I noticed that the recording dates for Wynton's classical CD, "In Gabreal's Garden" (I think that's the title) in which he plays 12-13 short trumpet pieces, required 12 days to record. Paint me skeptical but I don't think that is particularly unusual in the world of classical music recordings. I mean if you do enough retakes or punch in enough corrections over an extended period of time couldn't many of us come up with a pretty decent recording too? The down side, of course, is that as listeners we may come to expect that kind of perfection when we hear these guys perform in a live setting, only to experience hearing them fall short of their recorded efforts.
Larry

fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 7:18 pm Post subject:

I would have to say, in my opinion, that Wynton is by far one of the best, if not THE best, technical trumpet players in the world today. Not only does he have technique out the wazoo, but he has a good sound and can play very musically. However, if you want to talk about latin music or playing well in the extreme upper register, then Arturo is the man. Wynton is very versatile and can play jazz also, but I don't think Arturo is quite as versatile, but then again, I haven't heard too much of Arturo's classical recordings. Just my 2 cents worth!

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romey1 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Jun 2003 Posts: 797

Comparing these guys is pretty silly. Two different styles, and more importantly SOUND CONCEPTS.

Sandoval is a powerhouse with a big, unfocused sound.

Wynton's sound is much more refined and focused.

I would much here Sandoval play Latin Jazz, but I would much rather here Wynton play the classical concerti.

Recording techniques have NOTHING to do with it.

Horns used does however.

I think Wynton used a Schilke E3L with a Bach 239 bell.

It's safe to assume that Sandoval recorded the Hummel on his Schilke X3 - a tank, which he was playing back in the day.

Sandoval's Hummel is pretty funny, but not as funny as the Sandoval "Trumpet Concerto."

My take,

romey

fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 7:24 pm Post subject:

That's true... 2 totally different styles... it's hard, if not impossible, to say Arturo is better, or Wynton is better... I'm with Romey... if I want to hear a trumpet concerto I will listen to Wynton... if I want to hear power playing, squealing, latin playing... then I would put in an Arturo CD.
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saltpot · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:46 am Post subject:

Here is one for ya.....

Suppose Arturo and Wynton were around in the times of Hayden and Mozart...

would they have hired these players.....

YES most deffinitely!!!!!!!!!!!

Composers of the time were often limited by the performers abilities which they wrote the music for..... Now just imagine if arturo did exist in classical period, how different (and much more demanding) the Hayden concerto would be ...

So perhaps arturos/wyntons interpretation is just as correct as any others!!!

Another thing... the way trills should be played is still quite a debateable thing.... also it is worth remembering that the original peice would have been played on a natural trumpet (twice the length, no valves).. so it would have sounded a lot different.

Just my 2 pennys

Regards

Jody

trumpetmike · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:15 pm Post subject:

Saltpot – I agree totally with you idea that the sound is very different for the instrument for which the piece was write, but it was written for a keyed trumpet, not a natural one.
As for the trills, if someone has found a definitive way to play them I would be stunned. If it sounds musical, great, if not – a problem!
I wonder – if Wynton or Arturo had been around at the time of Haydn and Hummel – would they have been able to play like they do?
Having played Michael Haydn’s Trumpet Concerto in D, maybe these players were around – just the other Haydn wrote music for them!!
(If anyone doesn’t know the Michael Haydn Concerto – check it out, great fun and goes into the stratosphere!!)

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

[ This Message was edited by: dbacon on 2003-10-01 20:38 ]

pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

I like both of these guys and have many recordings from each. As far as the Haydn, Wynton wins hands down, but if I am in the mood for some good latin music with hot trumpet licks, I doubt that Wynton is even capable of doing some of that stuff. If he can, I sure would like to have those cds in my collection.

About the favorite classical pieces I have heard Arturo do are the Arutunian and a bootleg clip of Bachs badinerie #2 (or something like that ).
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_bugleboy · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:18 pm Post subject:

http://abel.hive.no/oj/musikk/trompet/articles/keyed_trumpet/

trumpetmike · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:22 pm Post subject:

thanks for that Bugleboy.
Do you have a link for everything??

_Clarino · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:52 am Post subject:

Something in BugleBoy's link caught my eye.

"The keyed trumpet disappeared from the musical scene by the 1840s. During the 1820s the valve trumpet in the area around Vienna displaced the keyed trumpet. Only in Italy did it find a temporary refuge in the operas of Rossini and Meyerbeer, being preferred to the technically more accomplished valve trumpet on account of its sound qualities, a preference clear, for example, from Michele Puccini's Concertone for flute, clarinet, keyed trumpet, horn and orchestra of 1838."

This is odd, as I had heard the keyed trumpet as "sounding more like an oboe than a trumpet" (I forget where the quote came from). I have not heard one played myself. Does anyone know what the sound is really like?

As for the initial topic, yes, Wynton is THAT good. The best trumpeter I have ever heard play.
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_bugleboy · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:24 am Post subject:

Does anyone know what the sound is really like?

There are sound files by Reinhold Friedrich on that link, supposedly playing on a keyed trumpet.

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

[ This Message was edited by: dbacon on 2003-10-01 20:39 ]

72* · Regular Member Joined: 17 Feb 2003 Posts: 59

Hmm...Let's see here...Would I prefer beautiful, flowing, and lyrical, or chopped up and overblown? Wynton wins hands down. Sure, Arturo can play high, big deal. It desn't really matter when, like I previously said, chop things up and play everything too brassy. Wynton stylistically kills Arturo. I would take Wynton's sound and style over Arturo's double notes and his tongue show any day.

72*

Dubba C? · New Member Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 3

72*,
I would take your Mom's infected vagina over Wynton's sound.

Dubba C?