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jocar37 Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 380 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:02 am Post subject: How do you hold your little finger? |
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Sometimes the simplest things seem to cause the biggest irritations. I can't figure out what to do with the little finger of my right hand. I was trying to keep it gently placed on top of the finger hook, on the theory that it would anchor my hand and so give stability to my other fingers. My thumb is similarly gently anchored on the underside of the leadpipe, approximately between the 1st and 2nd valves.
But when I do this, it seems to create problems, particularly in passages that involve movement between the second and third fingers, for example, moving between the B and the D in the 4th measure of Clarke's Second Study, # 29, in A maj.
I understand there's a shared tendon/ligament between the 3rd and 4th fingers that limits independent movement between these fingers. If that's so, it might explain why this seems so challenging. Lifting the 4th finger seems to reduce the feeling of restriction in my 3rd finger a little. But I also feel like my hand isn't as stable.
Any suggestions? |
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zackh411 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 1886 Location: Saint Louis MO
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Memorize clark 2 in the key of E (our F#), then play that a bunch of different ways (experiment) and see what's most comfortable for you. There's no real harm in putting it IN the hook, in my opinion, but if i'm playing a particularly fast passage, I tend to take it out of the hook. It's not something I consciously and purposefully do, just something i noticed that I do.
Make sure you are pushing down the valves with a bit of conviction... like, be pressing them with a bit of force, and see where your hand is most comfortable. _________________ ~Zack
Lead Piece: Custom PickettBrass
Jazz Piece: Custom Curry TC
Legit Piece: Yamaha Shew Jazz (18 Drill) |
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LH123 Regular Member
Joined: 24 May 2012 Posts: 76
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Most of the time, my little finger is in the air above the finger hook. I find that this gives the fourth finger (and the rest of the hand) the most freedom. |
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lh Claude Gordon Forum Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 3137 Location: London UK
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: |
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I will sometimes let it fly but mostly I will rest it on the top of the hook. I lift my fingers off the buttons, though, and if you don't, flying might be the more practical approach. In either case, try the following exercises...
In the Clarke, practise both 29 & 36 with 3 instead of 12 for all As & Es.
1. When you can do this evenly, switch and play it left-handed until even as well. Your right hand control will improve significantly.
2. Practise same exercises, but play staccato and finger ahead.... Again very slowly and with each hand.
3. When those get easy (haha), move your hand so that your driving, ring, and pinky fingers cover the valves. Work on 1 & 2 above, eventually with each hand in the new position. I think you will find the old problems will have gone away or at least become far less bothersome. If this is too easy, rotate the trumpet 180 degrees, and play with your fingernails on the upstroke. Bizarre perhaps, but it will clean up your finger technique! _________________ Eclipse Enigma Bb trumpet 2011
Olds Super Bb trumpet 1958
Eclipse Red Flugelhorn 2011
Selmer Paris model 59 Piccolo 1977
Conn New Invention Cornet 1913 |
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roynj Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer to have the pinky out of the hook and allow it to go wherever it wants to allow me to use my other fingers with the greatest flexibility. There's no benefit to "resting" it on top of the hook (and purposely keeping it there). The only time I put it into the hook is when I need the stability such as when I let go with the left hand to grab a mute, for example. |
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lh Claude Gordon Forum Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 3137 Location: London UK
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Resting the pinky on the top of the hook can be a great idea, if your hook is in the right place for your hand size, and even better if you have an indent for your pinky to sit in. If your ring finger is weak and fatigues easily, it will be late, so isolating the problem and working on strength and coordination is appropriate. Perform however you like, but technical practice with the finger on top of the hook will help develop your facility. _________________ Eclipse Enigma Bb trumpet 2011
Olds Super Bb trumpet 1958
Eclipse Red Flugelhorn 2011
Selmer Paris model 59 Piccolo 1977
Conn New Invention Cornet 1913 |
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Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7771 Location: Des Moines, IA area
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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I just let mine ride in the air. It doesn't seem to move with the 3rd one. When playing pic I use this pinky to play the 4th valve, like I was playing clarinet or sax. Works great.
Just don't ask anyone to straighten it out... |
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solo soprano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 856 Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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lh wrote: |
In the Clarke, practise both 29 & 36 with 3 instead of 12 for all As & Es.
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Also, in Clarke's Technical Studies, the Second Study, (for example) by employing alternative fingers we can strengthen the third finger and develop greater coordination of the fingers. In #36 of the Second Study in E by using the 3rd valve for all A's and E's the 1st valve is not employed. In #34 by using the alternative fingerings the 1st valve is down all the way. In #27-29 use the 3rd valve for all low A's and E's. The same with #37 & #39 all A's & E's use 3rd valve. From #40 on use normal fingerings. By creatively using alternative fingerings in our velocity routines we gain greater coordination and confidence when playing difficult passages.
lh wrote: |
1. When you can do this evenly, switch and play it left-handed until even as well. Your right hand control will improve significantly.
2. Practise same exercises, but play staccato and finger ahead.... Again very slowly and with each hand.
3. ... rotate the trumpet 180 degrees, and play with your fingernails on the upstroke. Bizarre perhaps, but it will clean up your finger technique!
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Is switching hands, rotating the horn 180, and "play with your fingernails" from Claude Gordon? |
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lh Claude Gordon Forum Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 3137 Location: London UK
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Hi solo,
None of those techniques come from Claude except for the little teaser of alternate Clarke fingerings. The fingering ahead idea came from John McNiel's first book on jazz trumpet techniques from StudioPR, which is chock full of great finger stuff.
Claude trusted my finger technique, and pretty much let me handle that part on my own, as both he and his son, Steve, had heard me knock out some pretty demanding rep on piano.
The playing from the fingernalis upstroke style came from a BD snare drum instructor who used to help me with my line ages ago. I used to be able to play the majority of the PAS rudiments including most of the rolls on the upstroke on the underside of a chairback. I think exercises like this, as well as left hand work cleans up the quality of the signals your brain is sending.
The switching hands comes from the piano and the plethora of cross hemisphere exercises that I use and occasionally present to trumpet students are most often 'ported over' to the trumpet by myself. _________________ Eclipse Enigma Bb trumpet 2011
Olds Super Bb trumpet 1958
Eclipse Red Flugelhorn 2011
Selmer Paris model 59 Piccolo 1977
Conn New Invention Cornet 1913 |
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jocar37 Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 380 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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lh wrote: |
1. When you can do this evenly, switch and play it left-handed until even as well. Your right hand control will improve significantly.
2. Practise same exercises, but play staccato and finger ahead.... Again very slowly and with each hand.
3. When those get easy (haha), move your hand so that your driving, ring, and pinky fingers cover the valves. Work on 1 & 2 above, eventually with each hand in the new position. I think you will find the old problems will have gone away or at least become far less bothersome. If this is too easy, rotate the trumpet 180 degrees, and play with your fingernails on the upstroke. Bizarre perhaps, but it will clean up your finger technique! |
lh - Fascinating suggestions. I want to be sure I understand you. Are you saying in #1 that playing with my left hand (which sounds pretty difficult), my right hand fingering will improve? What do you mean in #2 by "finger ahead?" Is your "driving" finger your middle finger? I'm not familiar with that term. _________________ 1945 Martin Committee
1939 Martin Handcraft Committee
1963 Olds Recording
1906 F. Besson flugel |
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lh Claude Gordon Forum Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 3137 Location: London UK
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Yes....
1. LH practice can definitely help you to make significant progress with RH fingering. Concentrate on slow perfection rather than increasing speed.
2. Fingering ahead means that as soon as you play one note, you immediately change to the next note's fingering during the space between notes. Hence the staccato.
3. And yes, the driving finger is the middle one... So named for its extensive use as a communication aid to indicate to other drivers when they have executed an unexpected manoeuvre. : ) _________________ Eclipse Enigma Bb trumpet 2011
Olds Super Bb trumpet 1958
Eclipse Red Flugelhorn 2011
Selmer Paris model 59 Piccolo 1977
Conn New Invention Cornet 1913 |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2362 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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A free floating pinky finger is not an issue... as long as you maintain a nice gentle arch with your 3 working fingers - keeping them in close proximity to the finger buttons and your thumb as you described.. (as you look at your right hand in playing position it looks like a backwards "C")
Mine rests on top of the finger ring at times, at times it is moving sympathetically with my 3rd finger, and then sometimes it is hooked into the ring as support esp. when I have a mute in or naturally when you need to do something with you left hand (page turns, mute tosses, texting...)
I don't think it's a big issue - focus on fingers 1-3.. slow, metronomic repetition work- scales and Clarke studies - "slam your valves" over-exaggerating the movements to build muscle memory. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2207 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:56 am Post subject: |
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freestyle
I took my pinky hooks off.
problem solved _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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lh Claude Gordon Forum Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 3137 Location: London UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:27 am Post subject: |
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I have now updated my signature to reflect my expertise in the world of pinky hooks, so that you may all be mystified and in complete awe. Maybe a new "pinky hook forum" is on the horizon.... _________________ Eclipse Enigma Bb trumpet 2011
Olds Super Bb trumpet 1958
Eclipse Red Flugelhorn 2011
Selmer Paris model 59 Piccolo 1977
Conn New Invention Cornet 1913 |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:08 am Post subject: |
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roynj wrote: | I prefer to have the pinky out of the hook and allow it to go wherever it wants to allow me to use my other fingers with the greatest flexibility. There's no benefit to "resting" it on top of the hook (and purposely keeping it there). The only time I put it into the hook is when I need the stability such as when I let go with the left hand to grab a mute, for example. |
Actually, I believe there can be a benefit to resting it on the hook. I have beginning students who have been told by a well-meaning band director to not touch or use the hook. What then sometimes happens is that they end up with fingers WAY too far away from the buttons, especially when a particular finger is not being used to press a valve. Touching the hook tends to keep fingers closer to the buttons.
Brad361 _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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