• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Comparison of the Maestro/Xeno/Neo to the Sovereign/Prestige


Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Cornet/Flügelhorn
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4365
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GordonH wrote:
The older Wick mouthpieces have rounder rims. Myself and a colleague both have early 1980's Wick 2's and the rim is close to a 1.5C Bach. The current ones feel bigger and have flatter rims with more defined shoulders. I think changes were made when they moved to a different machining process, and then again when they moved to CNC.

Hi GordonH

That is interesting, thanks. It is the rim being too high at the outer edges which I don't like, and is presumably what you mean by having more defined shoulders. Basically I like a bit more fall away to the outside of the rim, which you get on the Bach rims. The Bach 6 rim falls less to the outside, and is one Bach rim which I don't like particularly.

Maybe I'll have to look out for an older 3B.


The 4W is getting quite popular in my circles. A few people have switched from the 4 to that

That is interesting too. I however find the 4 cup diameter a bit small, preferring the 3. I don't believe that Denis Wick make a 3W or 3BW, although I have a feeling that they make a 2BW.

Take Care

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4365
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roynj wrote:
Lou
I've played both the Xeno and the new Sovereign in a brass band situation. Both had excellent build quality (given that the Sov in question was of the newer Courtois build). I felt that the Xeno's tone was excellent, although a bit more compact. Rich, but not quite as luscious as the Sovereign. I liked the hand feel (and superb trigger action) of the Xeno a little better than the Sovereign. But sound quality trumps hand feel for me, so the nod goes to the new Sovereign. Roy


Hi Roy

It is great to hear from somebody who has played both the Xeno and the new Sovereign in a brass band situation. As far as I am aware the new Sovereign is Buffet Crampon made rather than Courtois, or are they part of the same company. Either way, mine says made in France.

For me, sound also trumped other characteristics, hence why I also chose the Sovereign.

Take Care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4365
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyTX wrote:
I have to wonder what a curry rim on a Wick underpart would be like. Then again, I'm very happy with my BBC.


Hi RandyTX

If my experience with trying to put a Bach rim on a Wick under part is anything to go by, to maintain the sound of the Wick, you need to maintain as much of the Wick under part as possible, or to put it the other way, have as little of the Bach rim as possible.

I had Jim New make me a screw rim version of my Bach 3C rim, with the outer profile of a Denis Wick cornet mouthpiece, and Reeves threads. Bob Reeves threaded it for a Denis Wick 4B, and the resulting mouthpiece is horrible, and sounds more like a Bach mouthpiece.

I tried to understand what went wrong, and discussed it on this forum. It was the opinion of a few posters, and I think that they are right, that the point where my Bach rim and the Denis Wick cup mates, is too far down the cup, giving me too much of the upper portion of the Bach cup shape.

If I did this again, I would do it digitally, and ask Jim New to combine only as much of my rim as possible to maintain the feel, with as much of the Denis Wick 4B cup as possible.

As Curry mouthpieces have rims based on the Bach Mount Vernon mouthpieces, I reckon that a Curry rim on a Denis Wick under part, would have the same potential issues.

Take Care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rickrobr63
New Member


Joined: 09 Jan 2017
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this thread is a few years old, but as a member of a brass band here in NJ, I am beginning to weigh an upgrade to my current large bore Bach 184. I found this insight to be quite useful; so just wanted to say thank you!

Rick Roberts
NJWS, Trumpet
Imperial Brass Cornet
Yamaha 9335MYSII
Bach 184LG
Schilke E3L
Bach 229/25H


p76 wrote:
Hi Lou,

I recently backed-to-back the Xeno with the Sovereign and Prestige when our Band was looking for new cornets.

In terms of blow, the Yamaha was noticeably more open and free blowing than the Sovereign and Prestige, with the Prestige being very slightly tighter feeling than the Sov.

I felt the Xeno was slightly more free blowing than what I would think of as a standard blow for a large-bore cornet, with the Sov about spot on, and the Prestige a fraction tighter.

In terms of playability, it was a lot closer. The Xeno is not as heavy a build as the Bessons, and thus felt more nimble. That, combined with it's more open feel, made it easier to play than the other two, but the sound was light.

The Bessons took slightly more work than the Yam to play, but the sound was more dense. I found the Prestige almost too dense and thick for lyrical passages, while I found the Sov a perfect balance.

As a player, I'm probably a semi-pro sort of level, and I felt that I wasn't a good enough player to get the best out of the Prestige, but felt very comfortable with the Sovereign and the Xeno.

My personal preference in the test was the Sovereign, due to it's tone quality. However, two factors led us to choose the Xeno.

1. The ease with which it could be played, which for our D grade band and the level of some of our players was a big consideration.

2. Price - the best price on the Xenos was getting close to 50% cheaper than the Sovereign.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Roger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
p76
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 1019
Location: The Golden City of OZ

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rick,

No worries!

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Getzen Capri.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3ES, Horntrader HT3, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Cornet/Flügelhorn All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group